SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES, AGRICULTURE, SALMON AND WATER

February 07, 2001 Hearing Room B

8:00 AM Tapes 26 - 27

MEMBERS PRESENT: Sen. Ken Messerle, Chair

Sen. Frank Shields, Vice-Chair

Sen. Jason Atkinson

Sen. Roger Beyer

Sen. Ginny Burdick

Sen. Ryan Deckert

Sen. Bill Fisher

MEMBER EXCUSED:

STAFF PRESENT: Jennifer Solomon, Committee Administrator

Cheryl Young, Committee Assistant

MEASURE/ISSUES HEARD: SB 417, Public Hearing

SB 481, Public Hearing

SB 484, Public Hearing

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules. Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words. For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

TAPE/#	Speaker	Comments
TAPE 26, A
006	Chair Messerle	Opens meeting at 8:04. Opens Public Hearing on SB 481
007	Staff	Summarizes SB 481
SB 481, PUBLIC HEARING
009	Sen. Peter Courtney	District 17. States that he has introduced two bills for pipeline safety, and this is one of them. Requests a technical fix required by a LC opinion directed to him on December 11, 2000.
018	Jack Den	Chief of Pipeline Safety with the Oregon Public Utility Commission. Discusses the bill, statutes, and the department name change.
031	Chair Messerle	Close Public Hearing on SB 481. Opens Public Hearing on SB 417.
SB 417, PUBLIC HEARING
048	Staff	Summarizes SB 417.
050	Bob Rindy	Legislative Coordinator with the Department of Land Conservation and Development. States that SB 417 is a proposal by the department to make some repairs to the periodic review process. Asks the committee to make some adjustments to the current time lines assessment under certain circumstances. Continues with testimony. Submits written testimony. (EXHIBIT A).
134	Chair Messerle	Asks what impact a delayed periodic review would have on an applicant.
136	Rindy	Responds that typically a periodic review doesn’t involve an applicant, but is very often initiated by the local government itself.
146	Chair Messerle	States that he is referring more to their getting caught in a time frame, and their decision being delayed until the periodic review would be completed.
148	Rindy	Agrees they could get caught. Believes the time frame bump up they are asking for is fairly short.
158	Sen. Fisher	Asks if this periodic review is ever brought on by situations that are dependent upon it, or is it a periodic review that comes about as determined by so many quarters, years, or so many days?
167	Rindy	Responds that it is a schedule that LCDC prepares, and is based on the statute.
175	Jim Knight	Manager, Rural and Community Services Division of LCDC. Continues with comments.
176	Sen. Fisher	Asks if the rules are in statute or in OAR?
177	Knight	Responds they are in statues
180	Sen. Fisher	Notes that the people needed to do the periodic reviews know well in advance when these reviews are due.
185	Knight	Yes.
190	Sen. Fisher	Asks “isn’t it reasonable to leave the time lines as they are, and how many times has this problem actually come up?”
197	Rindy	Clarifies his response.
212	Sen. Fisher	Asks how many times this has occurred since this went into effect?
214	Knight	Discusses unanticipated circumstances requiring additional work.
221	Sen. Fisher	Asks if it wouldn’t be better to have the adjustment time spoken to here rather than extending the time-line and basically get it out of the way. If there was a problem arising, then you can have the specified time, but it would not allow for an automatic periodic review.
241	Rindy	States that if the local government can’t finish the work in six months, the statute requires that LCDC impose a sanction. LCDC is very reluctant to step in with sanctions.
269	Sen. Fisher	Asks if there is anything preventing them from getting any lead-time, and having it so that the process is under way in six months.
275	Rindy	Explains the reasons why there is no lead-time on this issue.
293	Sen. Fisher	Asks why not extend it for appeal process?
295	Rindy	States that they are asking for an extension specifically for the appeals process.
297	Sen. Fisher	Comments on the complexity of this process.
311	Rindy	Comments that what they are trying to accomplish is a very minor technical thing that is just only affecting that appeal.
315	Sen. Fisher	Notes that he would be happy if he saw such a reluctance to do sanctions against a private person under LCDC rules and regulations
325	Rindy	States that LCDC is very reluctant to do sanctions on private persons, and that all power is in regards to local government.
332	Chair Messerle	Asks if they would document and clarify what the impact might be on an applicant if this is extended on the periodic reviews.
338	Rindy	Responds that they will try to get more information on that issue.
344	Burton Weast	Speaks on behalf of the Special Districts Association of Oregon. Gives testimony in support of SB 417. Discusses some changes they would like to have made to the bill.
444	Sen. Fisher	Notes if this appeals process is changed to a one time shot to the end of things, then there would be the potential to have an appeal settled more quickly.
450	Weast	Responds.
479	Chair Messerle	Asks what are the sanctions against the State Department if they don’t get their process done?
484	Weast	Responds on the time lines that the LCDC and commission have to act. Does not see SB 417 harming that objective.
493	Chair Messerle	Asks for clarification regarding the time lines not met.
495	Weast	Responds.
504	Chair Messerle	Asks, that if the periodic review is not adopted yet and there is not a time line as we have seen in other regulatory agencies, then if the agency does not meet the time line then that person has the authority to go ahead with the project.
511	Weast	Responds “not in this process”.
Tape 27, A
038	Sen. Fisher	Do you have an amendment drawn up to make that appeal process a one-time thing?
040	Weast	No, but the bill was drafted last session, and he will try to get the local governments and department to meet and look at it and try to get some consensus on it before bringing it back to the committee.
046	Sen. Fisher	Asks if the relating clause allows it?
047	Weast	Responds that it states it relates to deadlines of periodic review. Believes it would be a deadline for appeals.
050	Chair Messerle	Requests that Mr. Weast do that.
052	Art Schlack	Association of Oregon Counties. Speaks in support of SB 417.
097	Linda Ludwig	League of Oregon Cities. Speaks in support for SB 417. Asks the committee to consider amendments to the bill.
123	Chair Messerle	Asks how long the sanctions have been in place.
124	Ludwig	Responds that she was told several years.
132	Chair Messerle	Requests of all those who testified, to work with Jennifer Solomon, and they will try to get all these amendments packaged together before the committee comes back. Closes Hearing on SB 417. Opens Public Hearing on SB 484.
SB 484, Public Hearing
141	Staff	Summarizes bill.
148	Roy Elicker	Legislative Coordinator for the Oregon Department of Fish & Wildlife. States that the department has concerns with SB 484. Continues with testimony. Submits written testimony. (EXHIBIT B).
176	Chair Messerle	Asks if the purpose of SB 484 is to get the cougars to move out of the populated areas, how effective do you think that would be? If they know where the easy food is going to be, are they going to migrate back into the area again, especially if they are prone to doing damage?
185	George Buckner	Director, Wildlife Division, Oregon Dept of Fish and Wildlife. Do not have any information that leads to the belief that cougars respond negatively to harassment.
190	Sen. Deckert	What is the definition or standard for immediate imminent threat to public safety?
194	Buckner	Responds that there is no definition like that in this bill.
209	Sen. Deckert	Asks, “in this work group, are all parties at table in the House that are concerned with this issue?”
211	Buckner	Responds that he believes so.
222	Sen. Burdick	Regarding the other bill in the House, are they talking about the same thing this bill is talking about which is non lethal use of dogs, or are they talking about a broader approach?
228	Elicker	States that in the other bill, it allows someone to kill a cougar if they feel there is an imminent threat to their own personal safety, others or their pets.
232	Sen. Burdick	Does the other bill have reference to dogs in it?
233	Elicker	Responds that yes it does.
238	Sen. Ferrioli	Represents District 28. Requests to be heard for SB 484 that he sponsored at the request of Paul Swartz and some Baker County Houndsmen. Testifies in support of SB 484.
322	Sen. Fisher	Asks what specific situation would authorize this person to get on the spot to allow him to follow this animal the 15 miles it would take, without having to go through all the red tape to go through the property.
331	Sen. Ferrioli	States that the Houndsmen are very adaptable. Expands on his answer.
361	Sen. R. Beyer	Notes that biggest concern that Mr. Buckner spoke of earlier about is that on line 13 there’s three little letters – NON. Because the cougar would come right back to the area again, why not take out those three letters and make it lethal harassment?
360	Sen. Ferrioli	Responds that there are others bills in the building to allow lethal take of cougars. Expands on this issue.
384	Sen. R. Beyer	Comments that he does not share that same thought, because he has a bill coming that overturns it.
385	Sen. Burdick	What kinds of hounds are being talked about?
388	Sen. Ferrioli	Dogs that are bred and trained to track, bred to hunt in packs, and bred to tree the animal.
400	Sen. Burdick	Asks if they are trained to tree the animal, what happens if they go 50 yards from the area and just tree the animal?
403	Sen. Ferrioli	States that the handlers control the hounds.
411	Sen. Burdick	How do they follow them, are they on horseback?
412	Sen. Ferrioli	Responds, sometimes in vehicles, sometimes on horseback, sometimes afoot.
427	Sen. Fisher	Comments that he would like to go on record regarding the sports pack license. Describes a situation in his district.
478	Chair Messerle	States for the record that this is a serious problem in his district. Describes an incident in his district.
Tape 26, B
036	Sen. Fisher	Discusses an instance where someone was attacked in Canada last month.
044	Sen. Ferrioli	Offers closing comments.
061	Rod Harder	Executive Director of the Oregon Sportsmen Defense Fund. States that he has changed from a supportive to a neutral position. Continues with testimony.
096	Rod Klawitter	Representing Oregon United Sporting Dog Association. States that they are in support of this bill. Continues testimony. Submits written testimony. (EXHIBIT C).
139	Sen. Shields	Asks if aversion therapy is for the public or for the cougar or bear.
142	Klawitter	Responds to question.
145	Sen. Shields	Asks if it really works.
146	Klawitter	Responds that he believes it does.
165	Chair Messerle	Asks, “in cases where you do have to take an animal or cougar, how much does it reduce the ability to find and destroy the animal if you don’t use dogs?”
170	Harder	Answers that we are killing more cougars in Oregon with the use of dogs now than before the ban.
181	Chair Messerle	When you have extreme danger to people or property, the chances of going out and finding that cougar and being able to take it is almost nil. So in those cases where it’s very specific, you just about have to use dogs.
187	Harder	Agrees
188	Sen. Deckert	Asks for clarification of killing more cougars now than before the initiative passed.
196	Harder	Clarifies the statement.
203	Sen. Deckert	States that he heard stories that we are not able to do this, that is why populations are increasing. States that it was more of a surprising factor that we’re taking more with dogs today perhaps than we did 6 to 7 years ago.
210	Harder	States that also would be correct if we still had hunters out there. Given the cougar models, there would be more tags issued to those people who ran sporting dogs, and we would see a really significant increase in the harvest.
214	Klawitter	Gives a follow up response to Sen. Deckert’s question.
250	Chair Messerle	States that he had a neighbor that had a bear this fall, who thought it would hibernate and leave him alone, but it has been with him all winter. Is that normal for bears not to hibernate?
254	Klawitter	Responds that it is fairly common. It depends on what the food source is.
262	Chair Messerle	Asks if he has developed an amendment, or would like staff to request an amendment to this bill?
267	Klawitter	States that he had not seen the bill until yesterday.
284	Glen Stonebrink	Oregon Cattlemen’s Association. Speaks generally in favor of this bill.
340	Jim Welsh	Lobbying for Oregon Family Farm Association who do not support this bill. Believes that this bill does not go far enough.
389	Michelle Blake	Citizen. Asks committee to oppose SB 484. Submits written testimony. (EXHIBIT D).
450	Kelly Peterson	Oregon Program Coordinator for the Humane Society of the United States. Opposes SB 484. Submits written testimony. (EXHIBIT E).
488	Chair Messerle	States that it is his belief that the animals destroyed now are much closer to the populated areas than they were in the past prior to Ballot Measure 18. That speaks to the danger that we are placing a lot of our communities in. Does your organization have any solutions to this?
502	Peterson	Responds.
Tape 27, B
039	Sen. Fisher	Comment for record. People of the state did not pass it, the people of Multnomah County passed Measure 18. Took Multnomah County out of the equation. People did not pass it by as many votes as it was passed by.
042	Sen. Deckert	Comments on the geographic or demographic conclusions. Asks if Ms. Peterson’s organization is in support of House Bill 2260?
048	Peterson	Responds that they are fine with it.
049	Chair Messerle	Notes that he understands that it is being amended.
050	Peterson	Agrees. Notes that as long as they are comfortable with the way it is being drafted currently, and there is some reference that it could change, then we would look at it at that point.
053	Sen. Fisher	Is it his understanding that if the hounds are out of it, then it’s acceptable?
054	Peterson	Responds yes.

056

Chair Messerle

Closes Public Hearing on SB 484. Adjourned 9:32.

Submitted By, Reviewed By,

Cheryl Young, Jennifer Solomon,

Committee Assistant Administrator

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

A – SB 417, written testimony, Bob Rindy, 1p

B – SB 484, written testimony, Roy Elicker, 1p

C – SB 484, written testimony, Rod Klawitter, 1p

D – SB 484, written testimony, Michelle Blake, 1p

E – SB 484, written testimony, Kelly Peterson, 1p