SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES, AGRICULTURE, SALMON AND WATER

February 26, 2001 Hearing Room B

8:00 a.m. Tapes 41 - 43

MEMBERS PRESENT: Sen. Ken Messerle, Chair

Sen. Frank Shields, Vice-Chair

Sen. Jason Atkinson

Sen. Roger Beyer

Sen. Ginny Burdick

Sen. Ryan Deckert

Sen. Bill Fisher

MEMBER EXCUSED:

STAFF PRESENT: Jennifer Solomon, Committee Administrator

Cheryl Young, Committee Assistant

MEASURE/ISSUES HEARD: SB 31, Public Hearing and Possible Work Session

SB 50, Public Hearing

Informational Meeting, Oregon Plan Reports

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules. Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words. For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

TAPE/#	Speaker	Comments
TAPE 41, A
004	Chair Mersserle	Opens Meeting at 8:02 a.m. Opens Information Meeting
INFORMATION MEETING
011	Grace Crunican	Director, Oregon Department of Transportation. States that she was asked to give a follow up on HB 2680 and discuss the agreement they have with a series of agencies that were called on HB 2680. This bill directed the Director of Transportation to form a committee and examine how state and federal environmental and land use regulations affected the state and local road programs in terms of construction, preservation and maintenance costs. Continues with brief report. Submits written testimony. (EXHIBIT A).
160	Chair Messerle	States that he found it to be a very productive and interesting committee. It was amazing the time constraints that you have to work under in dealing with all the hearing processes. What really came out of study was that you could go all the way through that process and cover every detail, then have someone file a complaint, if the permitting process or the right of way acquisition process and throw you back to the beginning again. Hopefully we can implement some of these things. I didn’t see any of your recommendations that needed legislation, it’s mostly what you can do within the department. Closes Information Meeting. Opens Public Hearing on SB 31
SB 31, PUBLIC HEARING
180	Staff	Summarizes SB 31
201	Robin Brown	Program Leader for Marine Mammal Issues, Oregon Department Fish & Wildlife. Provides comments on SB 31 as proposed.
223	Chair Messerle	Asks Mr. Brown if he would suggest the bill narrow its scope or leave it up to administrative rule
224	Brown	Responds that it would help the department to have direction as to what species the bill was referring to. Continues with testimony. Submits written testimony. (EXHIBITS B, C).
366	Chair Messerle	States that the frustration that he is hearing from lots of people is the imbalance. As we are spending millions of dollars trying to recover the salmon, and many of us, particularly on the coastal rivers and streams, see first hand, the population of the seals and sea lions, at tide boxes or culverts or wherever fish populations concentrate. States that the committee will take it into consideration as what is the most effective approach to finally resolve this imbalance.
392	Glen Stonebrink	Oregon Cattlemen’s Association. Provides amendment to change date on bill to 2002 instead of 2004. Discusses the three major concerns of the Governor’s veto of SB 988 from last session. Continues with testimony. Submits written testimony. (EXHIBIT D).
Tape 42,A
052	Jim Welsh	Representing Oregon Family Farms Association. Believes this issue is important in giving a managing tool to one of the factors effecting the salmon returns. Continues with testimony. Supports this bill.
074	Chair Messerle	States that they will not move this bill today. Need some clarification from fiscal. Asks Mr. Welsh if they are open to an amendment to define California sea lions and harbor seals. States that he is concerned that if we do not have optimum sustainable population in the bill it’s still a huge issue and someone is going to have to deal with it. Asks Mr. Welsh to help with research to find out exactly what the definition States that the committee needs a better understanding of exactly what that definition means and has asked staff to pull together more information on it.
093	Sen. Deckert	Wonders if California and Washington have passed similar statutes?
098	Stonebrink	States that he does not believe they have management power of sea lions and seals. Continues with answer.
113	Sen. Deckert	Under the Marine Protection Act, assumes for Oregon to only act we would need Washington or California legislator, it appears we would need a whole regional approach, rather than for one state.
120	Chair Messerle	States that the state should probably only be thinking about what happens inside the rivers would resolve some of the concerns..
128	Stonebridge	Provides another document regarding the threat to humans by sea lions.
132	Sen. Burdick	Asks staff to find out if there has been any experience with other states trying to get authority, and if they have tried, and for some reason has failed, maybe we can learn from that experience before we proceed.
140	Chair Messerle	Close Public Hearing on SB 31. Opens Public Hearing on SB 50
SB 50, PUBLIC HEARING
142	Staff	Summarizes SB 50.
157	Dave White	Administrator of Facilities Division, DAS. States that they had a team look through estimate for the move. Continues with testimony.
224	Chair Messerle	States that he is hearing considerable interest in moving the head office to Salem as soon as we can get it done, and leaving some of the offices and HUB, at least on a temporary basis. States that he would be interested if he and his department would run down cost figures on doing that, and coming to Salem and leasing until we can decide what is available, or if we should build or if there are other buildings space available just for the head office and the time frame we can do that. Thinks there is interest as we’re reorganizing the department or they’re trying to get back on track again, this might be a very significant and helpful move.
239	White	Responds that would be part of the planning they would recommend. Clarifies his answer.
261	Chair Messerle	Asks how much time would be needed.
262	White	Elaborates on time lines.
269	Chair Messerle	Asks if we know how much space is needed to move just the head office.
270	White	Responds to space needs.
296	Chair Messerle	Asks if they have already done an exhaustive search of what is available in the community.
297	White	Responds.
303	Chair	Asks if Mr. White if he has any recommendations as to what should be done, if this bill should be amended, to help the process along as he is not clear as to what the process should be and how it should tie together with the bill.
309	White	Responds and clarifies.
321	Chair Messerle	Asks if the HUB itself is shared with the Parks Department.
322	White`	Agrees, but felt it not the major issue. Expands on response.
335	Chair Messerle	Asks if it is possible to move the entire HUB to the Parks Department.
337	White	Responds that Parks is a renter in the Building with ODFW now.
346	Chair Messerle	States that he was thinking in terms that the if Parks Department had any facility where they could move the HUB into their existing facilities.
349	White	States that the Parks Department is in a leased facility in Salem and scheduled to move into the North Mall building. Is not large enough to site something like that.
362	Sen. Fisher	Asks how long do the leases running for the clients that are sub-leasing?
365	White	Responds.
388	Sen. Fisher	Asks if he understands that the Parks Department has no ease?
389	White	Responds that he does not know that for a fact.
404	Sen. Fisher	Asks how affects the sale of the building.
407	White	Responds they would create a lease.
432	Fisher	Asks what’s wrong with Parks Department getting down here where they wouldn’t have to travel. It seems to make sense that if we do one, we should do the other.
436	White	Responds that Parks is now leasing down here, with just the computer operation up in Portland. Expands on answer.
464	Sen. Fisher	Asks if the buildings are going to have big five stories, big lobbies and such in them, or are they going to be office buildings.
Tape 41, B
	White	Responds and expands on answer.
033	Chair Messerle	Asks if there is a requirement that we build on the Mall.
036	White	Responds about the unwritten 100 year old policy that headquarters will be on the Mall. Continues with response.
061	Chair Messerle	Asks if Mr. White would you review bill and work with Judith to see what is needed to move this bill forward.
063	White	Responds that he will.
066	Chair Messerle	Closes Public Hearing on SB 50. Opens informational meeting regarding wild fish hatcheries.
WILD FISH HATCHERIES, INFORMATIONAL MEETING
066	Dr. James Lannan	Emeritus Professor of Fisheries and Wildlife at OSU. Gives a brief outline of recommendations on hatchery closures. Refers to exhibit and graphs. Submits written testimony. (EXHIBIT F).
365	Chair Messerle	Asks Dr. Lannan to explain on the graph, what happened between 1984 and 1987, why the natural populations are very low on stagnant and hatchery populations were very strong. Other than that, they seem to follow a very close pattern.
373	Lannan	Clarifies for committee. Continues testimony.
Tape 42, B
001	Lennan	Continues testimony. States that they need goals and that they are not clearly defined.
097	Sen. Atkinson	States that Dr. Lennan said there was no statistical data that showed an inbreeding between genetic, supposed wild fish and a hatchery stock. States that about 30 years ago there was a book that raised a question regarding inbreeding between a hatchery and a hatchery selection would somehow come down the gene pool. What are your thoughts on that and has it happened? .
109	Lannan	Responds that it probably has happened by degree. Expands on answer.
119	Sen. Atkinson	Asks if there is a way we can interject some kind of management so that wouldn’t happen.
120	Lannan	Absolutely. Expands on response.
145	Sen. Atkinson	In light of hatchery practices of the ‘60s and ‘70s is there a pure strain of fish out there in Oregon or on the Pacific West Coast that hasn’t gone through that, for instance the Salmon River in northern California. A river that had a wild fish strain and it is now no longer returning, while the Klamath River is returning in record numbers?
157	Lannan	Responds that it probably has occurred widely over time, in both naturally spawning populations and in hatchery populations. Expands on clarification.
166	Sen. Atkinson	States that he would like to continue this conversation after the hearing.
169	Chair Messerle	Asks for clarification. States that our habitats have changed. Streams have change, but it’s not all man made either. We’ve seen channels change, the coastal streams before we came and started managing the countryside, we’d have huge fires that would burn a whole basin some years. So those kinds of impacts to the fishers resources is not what it used to be, and yet we’re talking about the native fish, the wild fish and that we should try to perpetuate them as our prime goal, when maybe that’s not the species or the gene pool that could or would survive. I am troubled because the department themselves, when they do try to bring in other gene pools, for instance with antelope and some type of deer, and when you consider on top of that the natural strain, makes me wonder if that’s how nature maintains the genetic gene pool. Says that science is confused at least to this point and that is why we are having trouble finding a goal that we can all hold on to and move forward. wonders if that is how natural contains gene pool.
200	Sen. Fisher	Talks about fish able to live in a creek, fish able to harvest, but not focusing on the hatchery and the wild fish issue, but focus on what we want to get from our fish. States that he thinks it goes along with the Chair’s questions.
215	Lannan	States that he will wait for Dr. Boles to speak before he responds.
225	Ed Bowles	Fish Division Director, ODFW. States that there is lots of common ground to build thoughtful responses to some of these important hatchery wild fish issues. Gives a general perspective on the hatchery and wild fish issue. Also gives a brief update on the progress of rewriting the wild fish management policy.
396	Chair Messerle	Asks Dr. Lannan to respond to earlier question.
398	Lannan	Responds to question. Expands on clarification.
477	Sen. Atkinson	Asks for clarification on ‘multiple stability region’.
484	Bowles	Clarifies.
Tape 43, A
035	Sen. Atkinson	Asks what kind of stock is being used to bump it up.
036	Bowles	Responds.
040	Atkinson	You talked about the liability between interbreeding of a hatchery fish to a wild fish. States that he is not understanding the liability.
049	Bowles	Clarifies. Refers to a debate, the misunderstanding of role of hatchery and wild fish, than can be could be viewed as liability as opposed to an asset. The liability comes with the improper use of the wild fish tool. Expands on response.
069	Fisher	States that Mr. Bowles makes the premise that the fish are best possible example what can get along to survive in that area. He disagrees. He maintains that if we put our heads together, we can get a lot better situation than what we’ve got by just allowing the natural process to run down. Would like to pursue that avenue of approach more than keeping a bunch of wild and natural fish up there. All will be intermingled with hatchery fish. Let’s get on with something that works with the fish we have left and what we’re dealing with and strengthens them and equips us to get a fish that’s better adapted to these places. States he doesn’t see why the same theory’s and processes that have worked with farm animals and plants can’t be adapted to the fish.
110	Lannan	Responds that in technical sense we can do it, but in a dual sense, we have the technical considerations and the social and political considerations. Expands on answer.
131	Fisher	Suggests that we get on the stick and get with it.
135	Chair Messerle	Adjourns the Information Meeting and the committee meeting at 10:00 a.m.

Submitted By, Reviewed By,

Cheryl Young, Judith Callens

Committee Assistant Administrator

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

A – HB 2680 Reports, written testimony, Grace Crunican, 27pp.

B – SB 31, written testimony, Robin Brown, 2pp.

C – SB 31, written testimony, Robin Brown, 22pp.

D – SB 31, written testimony, Glen Stonebrink, 2pp.

D – Informational Meeting, Fish Hatcheries, 6pp.

E – Informational Meeting, Fish Hatcheries, 2pp.