SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES, AGRICULTURE, SALMON AND WATER

 

 

February 26, 2001   Hearing Room B

8:00 a.m. Tapes  41 -  43

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:            Sen. Ken Messerle, Chair

Sen. Frank Shields, Vice-Chair

Sen. Jason Atkinson

Sen. Roger Beyer

Sen. Ginny Burdick

Sen. Ryan Deckert

Sen. Bill Fisher

 

MEMBER EXCUSED:

 

STAFF PRESENT:                  Jennifer Solomon, Committee Administrator

Cheryl Young, Committee Assistant

 

 

MEASURE/ISSUES HEARD:            SB 31, Public Hearing and Possible Work Session

                                                SB 50, Public Hearing

                                                Informational Meeting, Oregon Plan Reports

 

 

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 41, A

004

Chair Mersserle

Opens Meeting at 8:02 a.m.  Opens Information Meeting

INFORMATION MEETING

011

Grace Crunican

Director, Oregon Department of Transportation. States that she was asked to give a follow up on HB 2680 and discuss the agreement they have with a series of agencies that were called on HB 2680. This bill directed the Director of Transportation to form a committee and examine how state and federal environmental and land use regulations affected the state and local road programs in terms of construction, preservation and maintenance costs. Continues with brief report. Submits written testimony.  (EXHIBIT A).

160

Chair Messerle

States that he found it to be a very productive and interesting committee. It was amazing the time constraints that you have to work under in dealing with all the hearing processes. What really came out of study was that you could go all the way through that process and cover every detail, then have someone file a complaint, if the permitting process or the right of way acquisition process and throw you back to the beginning again.  Hopefully we can implement some of these things. I didn’t see any of your recommendations that needed legislation, it’s mostly what you can do within the department. Closes Information Meeting. Opens Public Hearing on SB 31

SB 31, PUBLIC HEARING

180

Staff

Summarizes SB 31

201

Robin Brown

Program Leader for Marine Mammal Issues, Oregon Department Fish & Wildlife. Provides comments on SB 31 as proposed.

223

Chair Messerle

Asks Mr. Brown if he would suggest the bill narrow its scope or leave it up to administrative rule

224

Brown

Responds that it would help the department to have direction as to what species the bill was referring to. Continues with testimony. Submits written testimony. (EXHIBITS B, C).

366

Chair Messerle

States that the frustration that he is hearing from lots of people is the imbalance. As we are spending millions of dollars trying to recover the salmon, and many of us, particularly on the coastal rivers and streams, see first hand, the population of the seals and sea lions, at tide boxes or culverts or wherever fish populations concentrate.  States that the committee will take it into consideration as what is the most effective approach to finally resolve this imbalance.

392

Glen Stonebrink

Oregon Cattlemen’s Association.  Provides amendment to change date on bill to 2002 instead of 2004. Discusses the three major concerns of the Governor’s veto of SB 988 from last session. Continues with testimony. Submits written testimony. (EXHIBIT D).

Tape  42,A

052

Jim Welsh

Representing Oregon Family Farms Association. Believes this issue is important in giving a managing tool to one of the factors effecting the salmon returns. Continues with testimony. Supports this bill.

074

Chair Messerle

States that they will not move this bill today. Need some clarification from fiscal. Asks Mr. Welsh if they are open to an amendment to define California sea lions and harbor seals. States that he is concerned that if we do not have optimum sustainable population in the bill it’s still a huge issue and someone is going to have to deal with it. Asks Mr. Welsh to help with research to find out exactly what the definition States that the committee needs a better understanding of exactly what that definition means and has asked staff to pull together more information on it.

093

Sen. Deckert

Wonders if California and Washington have passed similar statutes?

098

Stonebrink

States that he does not believe they have management power of sea lions and seals. Continues with answer.

113

Sen. Deckert

Under the Marine Protection Act, assumes for Oregon to only act we would need Washington or California legislator, it appears we would need a whole regional approach, rather than for one state.

120

Chair Messerle

States that the state should probably only be thinking about what happens inside the rivers would resolve some of the concerns..

128

Stonebridge

Provides another document regarding the threat to humans by sea lions.

132

Sen. Burdick

Asks staff to find out if there has been any experience with other states trying to get authority, and if they have tried, and for some reason has failed, maybe we can learn from that experience before we proceed.

140

Chair Messerle

Close Public Hearing on SB 31. Opens Public Hearing on SB 50

SB 50, PUBLIC HEARING

142

Staff

Summarizes SB 50.

157

Dave White

Administrator of Facilities Division, DAS. States that they had a team look through estimate for the move. Continues with testimony.

224

Chair Messerle

States that he is hearing considerable interest in moving the head office to Salem as soon as we can get it done, and leaving some of the offices and HUB, at least on a temporary basis. States that he would be interested if he and his department would run down cost figures on doing that, and coming to Salem and leasing until we can decide what is available, or if we should build or if there are other buildings space available just for the head office and the time frame we can do that. Thinks there is interest as we’re reorganizing the department or they’re trying to get back on track again, this might be a very significant and helpful move.

239

White

Responds that would be part of the planning they would recommend. Clarifies his answer.

261

Chair Messerle

Asks how much time would be needed.

262

White

Elaborates on time lines.

269

Chair Messerle

Asks if we know how much space is needed to move just the head office.

270

White

Responds to space needs.

296

Chair Messerle

Asks if they have already done an exhaustive search of what is available in the community.

297

White

Responds.

303

Chair

Asks if Mr. White if he has any recommendations as to what should be done, if this bill should be amended, to help the process along as he is not clear as to what the process should be and how it should tie together with the bill.

309

White

Responds and clarifies.

321

Chair Messerle

Asks if the HUB itself is shared with the Parks Department.

322

White`

Agrees, but felt it not the major issue. Expands on response.

335

Chair Messerle

Asks if it is possible to move the entire HUB to the Parks Department.

337

White

Responds that Parks is a renter in the Building with ODFW now.

346

Chair Messerle

States that he was thinking in terms that the if Parks Department had any facility where they could move the HUB into their existing facilities.

349

White

States that the Parks Department is in a leased facility in Salem and scheduled to move into the North Mall building. Is not large enough to site something like that.

362

Sen. Fisher

Asks how long do the leases running for the clients that are sub-leasing?

365

White

Responds.

388

Sen. Fisher

Asks if he understands that the Parks Department has no ease?

389

White

Responds that he does not know that for a fact.

404

Sen. Fisher

Asks how affects the sale of the building.

407

White

Responds they would create a lease.

432

Fisher

Asks what’s wrong with Parks Department getting down here where they wouldn’t have to travel. It seems to make sense that if we do one, we should do the other.

436

White

Responds that Parks is now leasing down here, with just the computer operation up in Portland.   Expands on answer.

464

Sen. Fisher

Asks if the buildings are going to have big five stories, big lobbies and such in them, or are they going to be office buildings.

Tape 41, B

 

White

Responds and expands on answer.

033

Chair Messerle

Asks if there is a requirement that we build on the Mall.

036

White

Responds about the unwritten 100 year old policy that headquarters will be on the Mall. Continues with response.

061

Chair Messerle

Asks if Mr. White would you review bill and work with Judith to see what is needed to move this bill forward.

063

White

Responds that he will.

066

Chair Messerle

Closes Public Hearing on SB 50. Opens informational meeting regarding wild fish hatcheries.

WILD FISH HATCHERIES, INFORMATIONAL MEETING

066

Dr. James Lannan

Emeritus Professor of Fisheries and Wildlife at OSU. Gives a brief outline of recommendations on hatchery closures. Refers to exhibit and graphs. Submits written testimony.  (EXHIBIT F).

365

Chair Messerle

Asks Dr. Lannan to explain on the graph, what happened between 1984 and 1987, why the natural populations are very low on stagnant and hatchery populations were very strong. Other than that, they seem to follow a very close pattern.

373

Lannan

Clarifies for committee. Continues testimony.

Tape 42, B

001

Lennan

Continues testimony. States that they need goals and that they are not clearly defined.

097

Sen. Atkinson

States that Dr. Lennan said there was no statistical data that showed an inbreeding between genetic, supposed  wild fish and a hatchery stock. States that about 30 years ago there was a book that raised a question regarding inbreeding between a hatchery and a hatchery selection would somehow come down the gene pool. What are your thoughts on that and has it happened? .

109

Lannan

Responds that it probably has happened by degree. Expands on answer.

119

Sen. Atkinson

Asks if there is a way we can interject some kind of management so that wouldn’t happen.

120

Lannan

Absolutely. Expands on response.

145

Sen. Atkinson

In light of hatchery practices of the ‘60s and ‘70s is there a pure strain of fish out there in Oregon or on the Pacific West Coast that hasn’t gone through that, for instance the Salmon River in northern California. A river that had a wild fish strain and it is now no longer returning, while the Klamath River is returning in record numbers?

157

Lannan

Responds that it probably has occurred widely over time, in both naturally spawning populations and in hatchery populations. Expands on clarification.

166

Sen. Atkinson

States that he would like to continue this conversation after the hearing.

169

Chair Messerle

Asks for clarification. States that our habitats have changed. Streams have change, but it’s not all man made either. We’ve seen channels change, the coastal streams before we came and started managing the countryside, we’d have huge fires that would burn a whole basin some years. So those kinds of impacts to the fishers resources is not what it used to be, and yet we’re talking about the native fish, the wild fish and that we should try to perpetuate them as our prime goal, when maybe that’s not  the species or the gene pool that could or would survive. I am troubled because the department themselves, when they do try to bring in other gene pools, for instance with antelope and some type of deer, and when you consider on top of that the natural strain, makes me wonder if that’s how nature maintains the genetic gene pool. Says that science is confused at least to this point and that is why we are having trouble finding a goal that we can all hold on to and move forward. wonders if that is how natural contains gene pool.

200

Sen. Fisher

Talks about fish able to live in a creek, fish able to harvest, but not focusing on the hatchery and the wild fish issue, but focus on what we want to get from our fish. States that he thinks it goes along with the Chair’s questions.

215

Lannan

States that he will wait for Dr. Boles to speak before he responds.

225

Ed Bowles

Fish Division Director, ODFW. States that there is lots of common ground to build thoughtful responses to some of these important hatchery wild fish issues. Gives a general perspective on the hatchery and wild fish issue.  Also gives a brief update on the progress of rewriting the wild fish management policy.

396

Chair Messerle

Asks Dr. Lannan to respond to earlier question.

398

Lannan

Responds to question. Expands on clarification.

477

Sen. Atkinson

Asks for clarification on ‘multiple stability region’.

484

Bowles

Clarifies.

Tape 43, A

035

Sen. Atkinson

Asks what kind of stock is being used to bump it up.

036

Bowles

Responds.

040

Atkinson

You talked about the liability between interbreeding of a hatchery fish to a wild fish.  States that he is not understanding the liability. 

049

Bowles

Clarifies. Refers to a debate, the misunderstanding of role of hatchery and wild fish, than can be could be viewed as liability as opposed to an asset. The liability comes with the improper use of the wild fish tool.  Expands on response.

069

Fisher

States that Mr. Bowles makes the premise that the fish are best possible example what can get along to survive in that area. He disagrees. He maintains that if we put our heads together, we can get a lot better situation than what we’ve got by just allowing the natural process to run down. Would like to pursue that avenue of approach more than keeping a bunch of wild and natural fish up there. All will be intermingled with hatchery fish. Let’s get on with something that works with the fish we have left and what we’re dealing with and strengthens them and equips us to get a fish that’s better adapted to these places. States he doesn’t see why the same theory’s and processes that have worked with farm animals and plants can’t be adapted to the fish.

110

Lannan

Responds that in technical sense we can do it, but in a dual sense, we have the technical considerations and the social and political considerations. Expands on answer.

131

Fisher

Suggests that we get on the stick and get with it.

135

Chair Messerle

Adjourns the Information Meeting and the committee meeting at 10:00 a.m.

 

Submitted By,                        Reviewed By,

 

 

 

Cheryl Young,                        Judith Callens

Committee Assistant                        Administrator

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A – HB 2680 Reports, written testimony, Grace Crunican, 27pp.

B – SB 31, written testimony, Robin Brown, 2pp.

C – SB 31, written testimony, Robin Brown, 22pp.

D – SB 31, written testimony, Glen Stonebrink, 2pp.

D – Informational Meeting, Fish Hatcheries, 6pp.

E – Informational Meeting, Fish Hatcheries, 2pp.