HOUSE COMMITTEE ON

AGRICULTURE AND NATURAL RESOURCES

 

 

February 06, 2003   Hearing Room D

1:00 PM Tapes  19 - 22

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:            Rep. Jeff Kropf, Chair

Rep. George Gilman, Vice-Chair

Rep. Kelley Wirth, Vice-Chair

Rep. Terry Beyer

Rep. Dave Hunt

Rep. Donna Nelson

Rep. Patti Smith

 

STAFF PRESENT:                  Ray Kelly, Committee Administrator

David Peffley, Committee Assistant

 

MEASURES HEARD:                     HB 2344 – Public Hearing                                                                                                                       HB 2396 – Public Hearing                                  

                                                HB 2260 – Public Hearing and Work Session

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 19, A

003

Chair Kropf

Calls the meeting to order at 1:04 and opens a public hearing on

HB 2344.

HB 2344 – PUBLIC HEARING

027

Ray Kelly

Summarizes HB 2344.

033

Rep. Bob Jenson

Co-sponsor states reasons, intentions for sponsoring HB 2344.  States pro-activity of this legislation as important to control future fire damage. 

087

Rep. Nelson

Asks if this legislation is meant to address the entire salvage program.

099

Rep. Jenson

Confirms that this legislation is meant to address all circumstances.

109

Rep. Nelson

Asks if the dispute with salvage logging has been addressed.

124

Chair Kropf

Emphasizes that this legislation should take effect immediately.  Asks witness if the word immediately is appropriate or whether it should be defined. 

133

Rep. Jenson

States his desire not to get bogged down with definitions.  Asserts that Webster’s definition will suffice.

134

Roy Elicker

Deputy Director, Oregon Division of Fish and Wildlife (ODFW).  Supplies neutral informational testimony regarding HB 2344.  Submits (EXHIBIT A)  and states concerns with federal laws and requirements.

178

Chair Kropf

Asks witnesses to give the historic background of this issue.  

198

Craig Ely

Points out the letter written to Rep. Jenson regarding salvaging the Bridge Creek Fire burn contained in (EXHIBIT A).   Details the genesis of HB 2344.

276

Elicker

Calls attention to Attachment B contained in (EXHIBIT A)  to go ahead with logging proposal. 

286

Chair Kropf

Asks when Ely expects to hear back from ODFW.

288

Ely

Responds that ODFW anticipates the approvals within a couple weeks.

297

Rep. Hunt

References the letter to Rep. Jenson.  Asks for Ely’s environmental assessment. 

304

Ely

Responds that environmental assessment was done by an assessor, and that it is not ODFW’s area of jurisdiction.  

317

Chair Kropf

Asks how we can tighten up the process as to waste less time in the future.   

347

Elicker

Suggests that ODFW should work more closely with the Department of Forestry. 

372

Chair Kropf

Suggests a meeting to streamline this process, which is what this legislation is attempting to do.  Asks if we have a value assessment yet. 

393

Ely

Responds that the value has definitely deteriorated, by perhaps 30-40%.

400

Rep. Beyer

Asks if there would have been a shortcut had this policy been in place before.

412

Elicker

States that we could have cut some time.

417

Rep. Nelson

Asks if private contractors could have expedited the process.

 

TAPE 20, A

008

Elicker

Responds that legal restrictions may have hindered that process.

014

Chair Kropf

Recapitulates the problems with other legislation and regulatory issues.

019

Elicker

Offers to serve on a work group to address this problem. 

024

Chair Kropf

Asks why OPRD was allowed to salvage property when OFWD was not.

027

Elicker

Clarifies misunderstanding about the process which followed the Bridge Creek fire. 

038

Chair Kropf

Asks if OPRD’s property was paid for with federal dollars.

042

Elicker

Affirms that it was.

044

Rep. Smith

Asks if there is an end time to the salvage time.

047

Ely

Refers this question to forestry.

051

Rep. Nelson

Asks if there is an emergency clause to help with this issue. 

056

Elicker

States that he is not aware of any.

080

Ted Lorensen

Oregon Department of Forestry (ODF). States the need to actively manage forests and ecosystems.  Submits (EXHIBIT B).  Expands on the forestry issues inherent in HB 2344 as well as the concerns of ODF.

134

Chair Kropf

Asks if this legislation could contradict federal legislation.

138

Lorensen

States that he doesn’t believe so.

144

Rep. Smith

Asks whether there is an end to the time when we can salvage.

149

Dan Mink

Responds to Rep. Smith’s concern that it varies on a case-by-case basis.

159

Rep. Smith

Asks for a timeline as to when the wood becomes unmarketable.

164

Mink

Responds that it will become unmarketable in about two years.

168

Chair Kropf

Talks about his tour of the burn area.  Asks Mink to talk about the process of fungus destroying the timber.

178

Mink

Discusses the blue stain fungus

185

Chair Kropf

Asks if the loss of the timber accelerates in the second year.

197

Mink

Affirms that it accelerates exponentially.

198

Rep. Nelson

Asks where and when the delays occurred?

202

Lorensen

Explains the intricacies of the federal process and analyses.

234

Rep. Nelson

States her belief that the federal government is responsible for 90% of the hold ups.

239

Lorensen

Suggests that the 90% figure might be a little high, but remarks that ODF has sent their concerns to federal government.

254

Chair Kropf

Announces that he’s preparing a resolution for congress to advise the federal government and asks how we’ll be removing the dead or dying trees.

278

Mink

Responds to the process of this sale.

287

Chair Kropf

Asks Mink to expand on the determination between hot fires and a fast-moving fire.

306

Mink

Responds to required quotas and how they relate to the processes.

323

Lorensen

Details the requirements of the Forest Practices Act.

340

Chair Kropf

Refers to (EXHIBIT B) and asks if the rule-making process is consistent and adequate.

349

Lorensen

Responds that ODF could live with anything that doesn’t increase the process.

357

Chair Kropf

Asks if it would be a burden for ODF to alter their timelines

376

Lorensen

Addresses the funding of ODF and the associated costs of operation. 

TAPE 19, B

002

Steve Purchase

Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT C) and states that if the committee decides to proceed with work on this bill, the Division of State Lands wishes to serve on a work group.

031

Chair Kropf

States that he’d like to see the process expedited.

034

Dave Barrows

Representing Association of Oregon and California Counties.  Testifies in support of HB 2344.  States that although his organization is not personally affected, the issue itself is vital to their interests.  Testifies that this bill would help to retain many of our precious resources. 

072

Chair Kropf

States concern with potential lost revenue down the road.

081

Barrows

Concurs with Chair Kropf.  Adds that the spread of disease is a vital issue involved in this legislation.

093

Stephen Kafoury

Audubon Society.  States that a coalition would be a better way to address some of the subtleties inherent in this legislation.

111

Avelyn Taylor

Audubon Society.  Submits (EXHIBIT D).   Offers that while economics have been addressed, we also need to address the fragile life still alive in the forest despite the burns.

154

Rep. Hunt

Asks for clarification on the harvesting of burned timber and asks of the Audubon Society feels that safeguards are necessary.

162

Kafoury

Addresses concerns and states that they are impressed with Chair’s sensitivity.

171

Jerod Broadfoot

Gives insight into the nature and response to the Bridge Creek Fire.  States that salvage logging has many positive uses.  

230

Chair Kropf

Closes the public hearing on HB 2344 and opens a public hearing on

HB 2396.

HB 2396 – PUBLIC HEARING

258

Ray Kelly

Summarizes HB 2369.

261

Rep. Betsy Close

Submits (EXHIBIT E) in support of HB 2396.  States that the legislation will benefit pest extermination companies.

294

Rep. Wirth

Asks if ODA will be able to submit its report on time.

299

Rep. Close

States that the information, which states that they were granted an extension, was taken off the internet.

310

Rep. Wirth

States understanding that the extension is due to the lack of funding from the legislative body.

314

Rep. Close

Understands the extension the same way.

317

Rep. Hunt

References  the previous bill.  Asks why we are looking at a recommendation contrary to that which was recommended by the stakeholder group.

338

Rep. Close

Responds that she’s representing the interests of her constituents, which were not represented by the stakeholder group. 

350

Rep. Smith

States concern with filing by computers.

353

Rep. Close

Responds with hiring concerns.

363

Rep. Smith

Resubmits concern about accessibility to computers.

382

Chair Kropf

States a conflict of interest on this legislation, but that he understands the technological problems faced by his constituents.

403

Rep. Beyer

States concern that we have no precedent for how this works and questions why we would change the system before the results were in.

417

Rep. Close

Addresses that California has had a similar situation for fifteen years and has not yielded positive results.

435

Rep. Beyer

Follows up that she’s interested in specificity and that she’s concerned that this legislation would broaden the scope too much.

439

Rep. Close

Responds that businesses have concerns with environmental harassment.

TAPE 20, B

002

Rep. Wirth

Asks how large a geographic area that this could potentially expand to. 

010

Rep. Close

Responds with the number of watersheds and states computer technology concerns.

022

Rep. Wirth

Asks if there’s a maximum allowable number of zip codes.

031

Rep. Close

Responds that she can’t answer that question.

036

Rep. Wirth

Asks how we can allow scientific researchers to do their job.

042

Rep. Close

Responds that maybe we need to streamline the paperwork.

045

Matt Blevins

Oregon Environmental Council. Submits (EXHIBIT F).  States support for the first provision of this bill, but strong opposition to the second provision of this bill.  Believes that this legislation compromises effectiveness of the pesticide reporting program.

126

Chair Kropf

Asks Blevins how computer reporting would affect the cost of this process.

133

Blevins

Says that this figure wouldn’t be in place of but in addition to the web base.

140

Rep. Wirth

Asks Blevins whether computer reporting might be a problem.

144

Blevins

Responds that it should not and that paper reporting would still be an option.

147

Rep. Wirth

Asks if Rep. Close’s concerns stem from a lack of funding from the legislature.

149

Blevins

Responds affirmatively.

154

Rhett Lawrence

OSPIRG.   Supports the paper reduction requirement, but states concerns that the passage of this bill would chip away at the effectiveness of current regulations. Submits (EXHIBIT G) as OSPIRG’s testimony.

206

Courtni Dresser

Oregon Advocacy Manager, American Cancer Society.  Submits (EXHIBIT H) in opposition to HB 2396 as it will compromise the health of many Oregonians.

236

Rep. Hunt

Restates that all three groups favor a smaller area, but will live with the larger area. 

244

Dresser

Agrees with Rep. Hunt.

246

Lawrence

Agrees with Rep. Hunt.

248

Blevins

Agrees with Rep. Hunt.

249

Rep. Hunt

Addresses Rep. Closes concern with eco-terrorism.  Asks if this has been an issue in California. 

269

Blevins

States an understanding that there are no documented cases regarding harassment due to this program.

282

Rep. Wirth

Asks Blevins if the larger geographical area could lead to false reporting.

289

Blevins

Responds that it’s not yet clear.

292

Rep. Wirth

Asks if Blevins sees any maximum allowable jurisdictions.

294

Blevins

States that it is open to interpretation.

316

Chair Kropf

Asks Dresser what a smaller jurisdiction would do for the American Cancer Society.

323

Dresser

Attests to having limited understanding and recommends that she might return with the correct information.

340

Blevins

Adds understanding that specificity adds to a greater reliability of information.

353

Chair Kropf

Asks about concerns regarding water contamination issues

361

Blevins

States that he doesn’t want to see a witch-hunt.  Recommends education as the best remedy.

374

Chair Kropf

Asks if specific addresses run contrary to the provisions of the law.

388

Lawrence

Responds that he raised the point to show that compromises had been reached.  Restates that broadening the law would make it less effective.

390

Chair Kropf

Closes the public hearing on HB 2344 and opens a public hearing on

HB 2260.

HB 2260 – PUBLIC HEARING

TAPE 21, A

005

Lindsay Ball

Submits (EXHIBIT I), written information on HB 2260-the summary on staffing status and town hall budget meeting votes.

038

Rep. Smith

Asks for confirmation that there were 1000 people which attended the town hall meetings.

041

Ball

Attests that 660 attended the meetings and that ODFW received over 300 additional responses in addition.

050

Rep. Nelson

State Rep. HD 24.  States that there are many other ways that we could handle this problem.  Adds that this legislation could be amended to address the residence requirements and veteran exemptions.  Testifies in opposition to HB 2260. 

132

Chair Kropf

Asks Rep. Nelson to address some of these issues in separate bills. 

140

Chair Kropf

Closes the public hearing on HB 2260 and opens a work session on

HB 2260.

 HB 2260 – WORK SESSION

158

Chair Kropf

Points out that this bill will probably be amended at a later date to address the concerns of the outfitters.

170

Rep. Nelson

MOTION:  Moves HB 2260 to the floor WITHOUT RECOMMENDATION as to passage and BE REFERRED to the committee on Ways and Means by prior reference.

173

Chair Kropf

Affirms his desire to pass HB 2260 without recommendation.

170

Rep. Smith

States deep concern for this legislation.  Will vote to move this bill out of committee as a courtesy only.

175

Rep. Beyer

Asks whether the bill goes to the Senate after it goes to Ways and Means.

178

Chair Kropf

Affirms that it does.

179

Rep. Hunt

Reaffirms Rep. Nelson’s procedural concern.  Provides that he wants to go on record as commending ODFW and wants HB 2260 to pass the bill with a DO PASS recommendation.

205

Rep. Wirth

Wants to go on record as enthusiastically supporting this bill.  Believes that the wealth of personal testimony attests to the will of the people. Also recommends a DO PASS recommendation.

228

Rep. Gilman

States that he will give a courtesy vote, but that he’s not sure of how he will vote on the floor. 

248

Chair Kropf

Asks for an informal poll on a DO PASS recommendation.

249

Rep. Beyer

States that she would vote for a DO PASS.

250

Rep. Nelson

States that she would not vote for a DO PASS.

252

Chair Kropf

Also asserts that he is not in favor of a DO PASS recommendation.

257

 

VOTE:  7-0

260

Chair Kropf

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

261

Chair Kropf

Closes the work session on HB 2260.  Passes the gavel to Vice-Chair Gilman, who reopens a public hearing on HB 2296.

HB 2396 – PUBLIC HEARING

262

Katie Fast

Oregon Cattlemen’s Association.  States concerns about confidentiality and the difficulty in compliance regarding pesticide use reporting inherent in HB 2396. 

292

Rep. Wirth

Asks if there are present difficulties complying with the current law.

296

Fast

Responds that there are serious problems with reporting.

361

Brad Witt

Secretary-Treasurer, AFL-CIO.  Submits (EXHIBIT J) and expresses strong opposition to HB 2396 as it jeopardizes the safety and health of workers by rendering the data meaningless.

TAPE 22, A

005

Rep. Nelson

Asks Witt to explain how this issue would currently be handled.

013

Witt

Responds that it’s difficult as the safeguards are being eroded.

019

Rep. Nelson

Responds that there are adequate protections already.

027

Witt

Responds that the problem is with the post-application phase and that workers have no basis to know beforehand and no knowledge that there is even a reason to take precaution.

043

Rep. Hunt

Asks for a sampling of the make-up of the work group.

049

Witt

Responds that the work group was well represented by groups with varying concerns, including both users and environmental agencies.

057

Rep. Hunt

Asks if there was a general agreement on parameters.

063

Witt

Agrees.

068

Rep. Hunt

Asks which end of the debate that Witt was on and whether he supports the decision.

070

Witt

Concedes that he was on the losing end of the debate, but that he does support the decision.

080

Terry Witt

Executive Director, Oregonians for Food and Shelter (OFS).  Submits (EXHIBIT K) . Discusses the three proposed changes which HB 2396 addresses and OFS’ concerns with this legislation

262

Rep. Wirth

Asks how much Witt feels that it would cost to implement the changes in this bill.

269

T. Witt

States that he does not know the exact figures.

298

Rep. Wirth

Asks if OFS is advocating for full funding of the original system as soon as possible.

300

T. Witt

Answers affirmatively.

302

Rep. Wirth

Asks if OFS would advocate for passage if the fiscal impact was significant.

305

T. Witt

States that he doesn’t think that we have the money.

308

Rep. Hunt

Asks for Witt to clarify his position.

330

T. Witt

Responds that OFS was given two choices and chose the best one.

336

Rep. Hunt

Asks who imposed the choice.

338

T. Witt

Answers that the decision was one of a series, and not a consensus among the group. 

390

Dr. Mel Kohn

State Epidemiologist, Oregon Department of Human Services.  Submits (EXHIBIT L) and reaffirms earlier oppositions to HB 2396 as a health hazard.

401

Vice-Chair Gilman

Adjourns the meeting at 3:53 PM.

 

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A – HB 2344, written testimony, Roy Elicker, 10 pp.

B – HB 2344, written testimony, Ted Lorensen, 9 pp.

C – HB 2344, written testimony, Steve Purchase, 1 p.

D – HB 2344, written testimony, Avelyn Taylor, 2 pp.

E – HB 2396, written testimony, Betsy Close, 1 p.

F – HB 2396, written testimony, Matt Blevins, 23 pp.

G – HB 2396, written testimony, Lindsay Ball, 35 pp.

J – HB 2396, written testimony, Brad Witt, 4 pp.

K – HB 2396, written testimony, Terry Witt, 2 pp.

L – HB 2396, written testimony, Mel Kohn, 2 pp.