HOUSE COMMITTEE ON

AGRICULTURE AND NATURAL RESOURCES

 

 

April 08, 2003 Hearing Room D

1:00 PM Tapes  59 - 62

 

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:            Rep. Jeff Kropf, Chair

Rep. George Gilman, Vice-Chair

Rep. Kelley Wirth, Vice-Chair

Rep. Terry Beyer

Rep. Dave Hunt

Rep. Donna Nelson

Rep. Patti Smith

 

STAFF PRESENT:                  Ray Kelly, Committee Administrator

David Peffley, Committee Assistant

 

MEASURES HEARD:                     HB 2258 – Public Hearing and Work Session

                                                HB 3551 – Work Session

                                                HB 3125 and HB 3126 – Public Hearing

                                                HB 3075 – Public Hearing

                                                HB 2416 – Work Session

                                                HB 3552 – Public Hearing

                                                HB 2893 – Public Hearing

 

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 59, A

004

Chair Kropf

Calls the meeting to order at 1:09 PM and announces the schedule for the day.  Opens a public hearing on HB 2258.

HB 2258 – PUBLIC HEARING

034

Ray Kelly

Committee Administrator. Summarizes HB 2258 and announces the      -1 amendments (EXHIBIT A).

041

Ron Anglin

Simply states support for HB 2258 as introduced.

047

Chair Kropf

Closes the public hearing on HB 2258 and opens a work session on     HB 2258.

HB 2258 – WORK SESSION

048

Rep. Gilman

MOTION:  Moves HB 2258 to the floor with a DO PASS recommendation.

051

 

VOTE:  6-0

EXCUSED:  1 – Nelson*

053

Chair Kropf

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

GILMAN will lead discussion on the floor.

HB 3551 – WORK SESSION

060

Rep. Hunt

MOTION:  Moves HB  3551 to the floor WITHOUT RECOMMENDATION as to passage and BE REFERRED to the committee on Revenue by prior reference.

064

 

VOTE:  7-0

EXCUSED:  1 – Nelson*

067

Chair Kropf

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

070

Chair Kropf

Closes the work session on HB 3551 and opens a public hearing on      HB 3125 and HB 3126.

HB 3125 and 3126 – PUBLIC HEARING

080

Rep. Greg Smith

Co-sponsor of HB 3125 and 3126.  Discusses problems with grey wolves in Oregon and their threat to life and property.  Displays constituent e-mail concerned with the wolf and public safety.

180

Chair Kropf

Opens a public hearing on HB 3075 to be heard concurrently with     HB 3125 and HB 3126 en bloc.

HB 3125, 3126, and 3075 – PUBLIC HEARING

189

Rep. Butler

Testifies in favor of HB 3075, 3125, and 3126 in order to remove grey wolves from the State Endangered Species Act (ESA).

212

Glen Stonebrink

Oregon Cattlemen Association (OCA).  Submits (EXHIBIT B) and testifies in favor of all three bills, as wolf populations pose a great risk to humans and to property.  Adds that the wolf was erroneously listed according to the ESA in the first place.

390

Chair Kropf

Asks about the species grandfathered in 1987 and a potential management plan.

402

Stonebrink

States that a management plan is not necessary and speaks to the protection of species.

410

Chair Kropf

Speaks to the costs of the program.

423

Stonebrink

Responds that these figures are approximate and based upon the precedents of other states.

430

Rep. Wirth

Asks how much wolves cost the state in livestock kills.

433

Stonebrink

States that he can not testify to a figure specific to Oregon due to differing circumstances.

TAPE 60, A

012

Rep. Wirth

Asks if other predators could be causing some of the problems.

015

Stonebrink

Also cites bears, cougars, coyotes.

021

Rep. Hunt

Asks why ODFW has not taken the action to delist the wolves.

026

Stonebrink

States that ODFW doesn’t make that decision.

048

Rep. Hunt

Asks about the outcome of the conversation with the Governor’s office.

054

Stonebrink

Suggests that the Governor’s office has not been very cooperative.

070

Jerod Broadfoot

Affirms support for HB 3075 and HB 3125 in order to address the serious predation problem in Oregon. States that this legislation can cut the $2 million management plan.

130

George Hutchinson

Southern Oregon Forest Coalition.   Testifies against HB 3075,               HB 3125, and HB 3126.  Reads testimony from The Oregonian supporting his opposition to these bills.

190

Rep. Smith

Asks where the poll came from which Hutchinson referenced.

192

Hutchinson

States that he doesn’t recall where the poll came from, but will reproduce it for the committee.

196

Rep. Gilman

Asks how we will pay for damage from wolves.

200

Hutchinson

Replies that Defenders of Wildlife will expand their successful Rocky Mountain States program to Oregon to compensate for wolf kills.

212

Rep. Gilman

States that he’d like to see some proof.

218

Chair Kropf

Recesses the meeting.

219

Chair Kropf

Reconvenes the meeting and opens a work session on HB 2416, while the other three bills remain open.

The following prepared testimony is submitted for the record without public testimony for HB 3125,                 HB 3126, and HB 3075.

 

Jim Welsh

Submits (EXHIBIT V).

HB 2416 – WORK SESSION

224

Chair Kropf

Calls invited testimony.

225

Rep. Close

Testifies that the definition of science will not harm law enforcement.   (EXHIBIT C)

250

Stonebrink

OCA. States that getting rid of bogus science will save us much money.

266

Rep. Close

States the effect of the -1 amendments (EXHIBIT D).

270

Chair Kropf

Closes the public hearing on HB 2416, HB 3125, and HB 3126.

HB  3075 – PUBLIC HEARING

300

Ron Anglin

Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife (ODFW).  Submits (EXHIBIT E), (EXHIBIT F), (EXHIBIT G), (EXHIBIT H), and (EXHIBIT I) and testifies as to ESA delisting and compliance as it relates to three bills dealing with the grey wolf.

TAPE 59, B

020

Rep. Wirth

Asks Anglin if the estimate of five hundred and seventy-five wolves in Oregon is accurate.

026

Anglin

Says that there are presently no wolves in Oregon now.

030

Rep. Wirth

Points out that the SMS states that five hundred and seventy-five exist.

034

Anglin

States that the recovery area is in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming.

040

Rep. Wirth

Asks why we have a law for wolves if there are no wolves.

042

Anglin

Replies that it’s probably preventative.

048

Rep. Wirth

Asks for confirmation that there are no wolves and therefore no direct threat.

050

Anglin

Restates that as far as ODFW knows, there are none.

050

Chair Kropf

Adds that a few have strayed from Idaho.

056

Anglin

Reaffirms the Chair and expresses concern that more could follow.

058

Rep. Nelson

Asks who will be liable in the case of a wolf crossing over and causing harm.

075

Anglin

States that they must work within the federal ESA guidelines, and that the federal government would be burdened with liability.

089

Chair Kropf

Asks about the management plan currently under consideration.  Asks if the department has discussed compensation.

098

Anglin

States that they have not.

107

Chair Kropf

Asks why we don’t write management plans for all species.

115

Anglin

States that they’d like to, but that they have neither the manpower nor the budget.

127

Chair Kropf

Speaks to management plans regarding all endangered species and notes that sound policy should dictate decision-making.   

144

Anglin

Recognizes that they need to address all the problems and hope to address the plans.

152

Rep. Gilman

Asks if the state ESA and the federal ESA are the same regarding the killing of threatening wildlife.

160

Anglin

Addresses the two ESA laws.

168

Rep. Nelson

Asks if there are matching funds available.

170

Anglin

Speaks to the 25% match.

176

Rep. Nelson

Asks about determining factors for delisting species from the ESA.

181

Anglin

Speaks to criteria for addressing delisting.

195

Rep. Hunt

Asks what downlisting refers to.

199

Anglin

Speaks to the different statuses related to downlisting.

204

Rep. Hunt

Asks about the ending timeline.

212

Anglin

States that they’d like to have the plan ready in late 2004.

235

Greg Addington

Oregon Farm Bureau (OFB).  Submits (EXHIBIT J) and speaks with general support for the three wolf-related bills.  Specifically addresses HB 3075 in order to allow ranchers and farmers to legally protect their property.

322

Al Elkins

Oregon Hunters Association (OHA).  States OHA’s concern that although wolves may not be here now, it is inevitable that they will be.  Asserts that a proactive approach is important.

350

Rep. Nelson

Asks if the witnesses have spoken with legal counsel regarding liability.

354

Addington

Responds that he hasn’t.

364

Elkins

Responds that they have had discussions.

367

Addington

States concern for the potential fiscal impact.

405

Dr. Bob Beschta

Submits (EXHIBIT K) and speaks against HB 3075 and testifies that wolves’ threat to humans and property are overstated.

TAPE 60, B

013

Dr. Beschta

Continues testimony in opposition to HB 3075.  Acknowledges the work done by ODFW.  Stresses that the three pieces of legislation are very counterproductive to wolf management.

066

Chair Kropf

References Dr. Beschta’s written testimony and asks about wolf attacks on humans.

071

Dr. Beschta

Reaffirms that there have not been any attacks that he knows of.

086

Chair Kropf

Asks Beschta if he believes in the evidence that wolves attack humans.

091

Dr. Beschta

Addresses zero tolerance and encourages the committee to look at the scientific evidence.

103

Chair Kropf

Asks Beschta how wolves can aid riparian ecosystems.

108

Dr. Beschta

States that they’re necessary to thin the elk populations which harm cottonwood populations.

128

Chair Kropf

Mentions the fire.

129

Beschta

Mentions that its an independent issue.

138

Roger Huffman

Oregon Department of Agriculture (ODA).  Addresses ODA’s contribution to wildlife management practices and ESA requirements.

197

Chair Kropf

Closes the public hearing on HB 3075 and recesses the meeting.

201

Chair Kropf

Reconvenes the meeting and entertains a motion to suspend the rules for the purpose of allowing Rep. Nelson to vote on HB 3551 and       HB 2258.

204

Rep. Gilman

MOTION:  Moves to SUSPEND the rules for the purpose of allowing Rep. Nelson to vote aye on HB 3551 and HB 2258.

 

 

VOTE:  7-0

AYE:            In a roll call vote, all members present vote Aye.

206

Chair Kropf

The motion CARRIES.

HB 3551 – WORK SESSION

209

Chair Kropf

MOTION:  Requests unanimous consent that the rules be SUSPENDED to allow REP. NELSON to BE RECORDED as voting AYE on the motion to move HB 3551 to the floor WITHOUT RECOMMENDATION as to passage and BE REFERRED to the committee on Revenue by prior reference.

217

Chair Kropf

Closes the work session on HB 3551 and opens a work session on          HB 2258.

HB 2258 – WORK SESSION

220

Chair Kropf

MOTION:  Requests unanimous consent that the rules be SUSPENDED to allow REP. NELSON to BE RECORDED as voting AYE on the motion to move Moves HB 2258 to the floor with a DO PASS recommendation.

222

Chair Kropf

Closes the work session on HB 2258 and recesses the meeting.

223

Chair Kropf

Reconvenes the meeting and opens a work session on HB 2416.

HB 2416 – WORK SESSION

226

Rep. Nelson

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT HB 2416-1 amendments dated 03/05/03.

228

 

VOTE:  6-0

EXCUSED:  1 - Wirth

229

Chair Kropf

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

236

Rep. Nelson

MOTION:  Moves HB  2416 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

237

Rep. Hunt

States opposition to this restrictive law.

247

Rep. Beyer

Asserts this legislation to be unnecessary.

253

Rep. Nelson

Asserts that this is a very good bill which will bring credibility to the legislature.

277

 

VOTE:  4-2

AYE:               4 - Gilman, Nelson, Smith P., Kropf

NAY:               3 - Beyer, Hunt

EXCUSED:     Wirth*

284

Chair Kropf

The motion CARRIES.

REP. CLOSE will lead discussion on the floor.

302

Chair Kropf

Closes the work session on HB 2416 and passes the gavel to Vice-Chair Gilman.

304

Vice-Chair Gilman

Opens a public hearing on HB 3552.

HB 3552 – PUBLIC HEARING

306

Ray Kelly

Summarizes HB 3552.

314

Kristina McNItt

Small Woodlands Association.  Submits (EXHIBIT L) and testifies in support of HB 3552 as vital to small woodlands. 

380

Sara Leiman

General Manager, Coast Range Conifers LLC.  Submits        (EXHIBIT M) and testifies in support of HB 3552 in order to preserve family farming. 

TAPE 61, A

007

Leiman

Concludes testimony in support of HB 3552.

055

McNitt

States the desire to wordsmith this legislation into a more workable solution.

064

Gary Springer

States support for HB 3552. Maintains that this legislation would benefit the landowner in the reduction of costs and establishes regulatory equality.

161

Lanny Quackenbush

Oregon Department of Forestry (ODF).  Submits (EXHIBIT N), affirms the previous testimony, and testifies in support of HB 3552.

238

Rep. Smith

Asks how the National Scenic Act relates to this bill.

245

Quackenbush

States that he is not sure.

253

Chair Kropf

Directs the interested parties to work HB 3552 to make it viable to all parties.  Closes the public hearing on HB 3552 and reopens a work session on HB 2416.

263

Rep. Gilman

MOTION:  Moves to SUSPEND the rules for the purpose of Allowing Rep. Wirth to vote NAY on HB 2416.

265

 

VOTE:  7-0

267

Chair Kropf

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

HB 2416 – WORK SESSION

272

Rep. Gilman

MOTION:  Requests unanimous consent that the rules be SUSPENDED to allow REP. WIRTH to BE RECORDED as voting NAY on the Motion to move HB  2416 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

 

Chair Kropf

Closes the work session on HB 2416 and opens a public hearing on  HB 2893.

HB 2893 – PUBLIC HEARING

283

Kelly

Summarizes HB 2893.

300

Phil Barnhart

Sponsor of HB 2893, speaks to working together with Mark Reed in order to produce this legislation.   Points out the objective of this bill to allow the public to testify without being harassed before the board of geologists. 

TAPE 62, A

002

Mark Reed

Lane County Geologists.  Submits (EXHIBIT O) and (EXHIBIT P) and testifies with support of HB 2893 as being an issue of first amendment freedom of speech.  Speaks to the forthcoming                    -1 amendments. 

141

Rep. Nelson

Notes that she’s appalled at this breach of first amendment rights.

148

Reed

Concludes preceding testimony, by addressing the concept of public safety as it relates to HB 2893.

191

Chair Kropf

Asks if there is any opposition to HB 2893.

194

Reed

States that geologists are not supportive of this legislation.

219

Robin Hartmann

Oregon Shores Conservation Coalition.  Submits (EXHIBIT Q) and speaks in favor of this bill in order to protect coastal resources.

291

David Michael

Submits (EXHIBIT R) and testifies in opposition to HB 2893.  Addresses Reed’s testimony and why Reed’s condition is now satisfied without the need for legislation.  Submits (EXHIBIT S) proposed amendments to a related SB 572.

TAPE 61, B

008

Michael

Continues testimony in opposition to HB 2893 and addresses Chair Kropf’s question as to who opposed this legislation.

026

Kelly

States that the Senate Bill amendment, submitted by Michael carries no weight in a House Committee, and thus is not germane to this bill.

044

Michael

Asks for clarification on the policy.

050

Chair Kropf

States that all amendments must be submitted thought Legislative Counsel.

054

Kelly

Clarifies the legal procedure for submitting an amendment, conceptual or otherwise.

075

Michael

Responds on the question of opposition to HB 2893.

092

Rep. Nelson

Conveys concern about professionals being unable to express their opinion.

130

Susanna Knight

Submits (EXHIBIT T) and testifies in opposition to HB 2893.  States that the Geology board would like a chance to help address this issue.

162

Rep. Wirth

Asks whether the bill for Reed’s legal fees was paid.

167

Michael

States belief that the legal fees were paid pro bono.

175

Vice-Chair Gilman

Expresses his belief that sometimes agencies err in making and enforcing rules.

182

Michael

Recognizes the errors of the Board’s ways.  Submits (EXHIBIT U) for Michael Long.

The following prepared testimony is submitted for the record without public testimony for HB 2893.

 

Jon Williams

Submits (EXHIBIT W).

 

Karen Reed

Submits (EXHIBIT X).

186

Vice-Chair Gilman

Asks Reed to work out the details to HB 2893 soon.  Closes the public hearing and adjourns the meeting at 4:22 PM.

 

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A – HB 2258, -1 amendments, staff, 5 pp.

B – HB 3125, HB 3126, and HB 3075, written testimony, Glen Stonebrink, 5 pp.

C – HB 2416, written testimony, Rep. Betsy Close, 2 pp.   

D – HB 2416, -1 amendments, staff, 1 p.

E – HB 3075, written testimony, Ron Anglin, 2 pp.

F – HB 3075, written information, Ron Anglin, 2 pp.

G – HB 3126, written testimony, Ron Anglin, 2 pp.

H – HB 3075, written testimony, Ron Anglin, 2 pp.

I – HB 3125, written testimony, Ron Anglin, 2 pp.

J – HB 3125, HB 3126, and HB 3075, written testimony, Greg Addington, 2 pp.

K – HB 3075, written testimony, Robert Beschta, HB 3075, 3 pp.

L – HB 3552, written testimony, Kristina McNitt, 3 pp.

M – HB 3552, written testimony, Sara Leiman, 5 pp.

N – HB 3552, written testimony, Lanny Quackenbush, 3 pp.

O – HB 2893, written testimony, Mark Reed, 6 pp.

P – HB 2893, written testimony, Mark Reed, 14 pp.

Q – HB 2893, written testimony, Robin Hartmann, 10 pp.

R – HB 2893, written testimony, David Michael, 5 pp.

S – HB 2893, SB 572 -2 amendments, David Michael, 1 p.

T – HB 2893, written testimony, Susanna Knight, 3 pp.

U – HB 2893, written testimony, David Michael, 2 pp.

V – HB 3075, 3125, and 3126, Jim Welsh, 1 p.

W – HB 2893, written testimony, Jon Williams, 2 pp.

X – HB 2893, written testimony, Karen Reed, 3 pp.