HOUSE COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION

February 12, 2003 Hearing Room E

1:30 PM Tapes 24 - 25

MEMBERS PRESENT: Rep. Vic Backlund, Chair

Rep. Elaine Hopson, Vice-Chair

Rep. Pat Farr, Vice-Chair

Rep. Brad Avakian

Rep. Billy Dalto

Rep. Mary Nolan

Rep. Wayne Scott

STAFF PRESENT: Jim Keller, Committee Administrator

Jeana Harrington, Committee Assistant

MEASURES HEARD: HB 2193 – Public Hearing and Work Session

HB 2509 – Public Hearing

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules. Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words. For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

TAPE/#	Speaker	Comments
TAPE 24, A
004	Chair Backlund	Calls meeting to order at 1:35 PM. Welcomes colleagues and audience. Opens public hearing on HB 2193.
HB 2193 PUBLIC HEARING
010	Jim Keller	Committee Administrator. Reads Staff Measure Summary (SMS).
015	Bret West	Assistant Commissioner, Oregon Department of Community Colleges and Workforce Development (CCWD). Testifies on HB 2193 (EXHIBIT A). Explains the bill. Notes the referral to Ways and Means. States amendments clarify the bill.
039	Chair Backlund	Closes public hearing and opens work session on HB 2193.
HB 2193 WORK SESSION
042	Rep. Farr	MOTION: Moves HB 2193 to the floor with a DO PASS recommendation and BE REFERRED to the committee on Ways and Means by prior reference.
045		VOTE: 6-0-1 EXCUSED: 1 - Scott
	Chair Backlund	Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.
048	Chair Backlund	Closes work session on HB 2193. Opens public hearing on 2509.
HB 2509 PUBLIC HEARING
050	Jim Keller	Reads SMS.
	Ellen Wojahn	Submits written testimony on HB 2509 (EXHIBIT B).
060	William Lay	Chief Executive Officer, Pioneer Youth Corps (PYC). Informs the committee of the program. Explains the reasoning behind becoming a charter school. Testifies in opposition of HB 2509. Informs the committee of potential students prohibited by current caps on out-of-district.
112	Catherine Lay	League of Oregon Charter Schools. Testifies in opposition of HB 2509. Explains that it inhibits student access to charter schools.
160	Allison Walton	Parent. Testifies in opposition of HB 2509. Explains the circumstance her family faces with charter school waiting lists. Relates her experience to that of others.
202	Rep. Hopson	Clarifies the school Ms. Walton’s son is currently attending.
206	Walton	Explains that her son currently attends middle school at PYC, but will be unable to attend high school there for a period of time.
212	Rep. Hopson	Questions whether the situation is prevented by the 80/20 rule.
216	Walton	Responds he is prevented from attending due to the provision.
221	Rep. Dalto	Asks Mr. Lay to return and testify.
224	W. Lay	Explains the PYC program further with regard to Ms. Walton’s circumstance.
242	Rep. Dalto	Clarifies the term ‘marginalized youth’.
244	W. Lay	Defines the term as troubled students who have not yet been sent to youth corrections or incarcerated.
265	Rep. Hopson	Asks if the school is both private and charter.
270	W. Lay	Affirms and explains PYC is registered as a private, charter, and an alternative program. Adds the programs are separate.
288	Rep. Hopson	Clarifies further.
293	W. Lay	Explains with regard to students’ districts. Differentiates between the programs with regard to waiting lists and rigor of each program.
327	Rep. Farr	Poses question regarding number of seats in the school.
330	W. Lay	Provides number of students in the programs.
333	Rep. Farr	Asks question concerning student enrollment.
338	W. Lay	Affirms and explains.
345	Rep. Farr	Clarifies seats are empty in his school while there is a waiting list for the other programs.
351	Rep. Avakian	Poses question for C. Lay concerning enrollment.
376	C. Lay	Responds that she believes so. Offers examples of how the situation will become a problem in the future.
TAPE 25, A
002	C. Lay	Explains the future of charter school equalization.
022	Rep. Avakian	Clarifies whether she is comfortable with certain changes in HB 2509.
025	C. Lay	Answers regarding the bill.
031	Rep. Avakian	Inquires as to what she would propose.
033	C. Lay	Explains her opinion further.
045	Rep. Avakian	Poses hypothetical question regarding equalization and the ideal charter school model.
052	C. Lay	Responds concerning public schools in Oregon. Believes that charter schools will never take the place of charter schools.
060	Rep. Avakian	Comments.
068	Rep. Dalto	Inquires if charter schools should compete against themselves.
069	C. Lay	Concurs and states that competition is necessary to improve and achieve excellence.
076	Rep. Dalto	Clarifies whether certain charter schools will not survive.
080	C. Lay	Explains her earlier comment was regarding charter schools in other states. Gives examples of charter schools that have ceased to exist in Oregon. Differentiates between the scenarios.
095	Rep. Dalto	Refers to specific section of HB 2509. Asks her expectation of the caps.
102	C. Lay	Responds with an example of a charter school enrollment. Questions why charter districts do not exist if there is a need or them.
119	Rep. Farr	Informs her of the effects of the bill upon passage and relates those to her district.
127	C. Lay	Answers with number of students in her district.
128	Rep. Farr	Continues explanation.
140	Laurie Wimmer-Whalen	Oregon Education Association (OEA). Testifies in favor of HB 2193 (EXHIBIT C). Asks the committee to consider rescinding the subsequent referral to Ways and Means.
179	Tricia Smith	Oregon School Employees Association (OSEA). Testifies in support of HB 2193. Provides perspective on charter school sunset law establishment. Believes charter schools are important, but should never become a substitute for general public school education.
240	Rep. Avakian	Asks what concern they have for decrease in revenues.
245	Smith	Acknowledges that the funds will stay in the public school system but explains their allocation will be to a separate groups of students.
253	Rep. Avakian	Questions the concern for this.
254	Smith	Remarks that consideration to overall effects on the budget is necessary.
260	Rep. Scott	Requests the effects on general public schools.
264	Smith	Offers the further deterioration of the public school system with regard to staff and programs. Believes this could be exacerbated.
277	Whalen	Adds to Ms. Smith’s comments explaining the ways that districts are coping with the budget cuts.
295	Rep. Farr	Asks if the witnesses believe a ‘mass exodus’ would occur were the cap to be removed.
298	Whalen	Believes ‘mass exodus’ is too strong a term. Comments.
307	Rep. Farr	Questions if the concern is that more charter schools will accumulate.
308	Whalen	Replies regarding the issue.
310	Smith	Speaks to this concerning honors programs in general public schools.
328	Rep. Farr	Refers to Lincoln County and asks about pay increases to employees within the district.
335	Smith	Responds about the concern for administrative compensation packages in Lincoln County. States she does not represent the school board. Offers she is unsure of how to respond with regard to the bill.
358	Chair Backlund	Requests she review charter student versus public schools student with regard to funds.
360	Smith	Explains that essentially the district receives per student funds, and charter schools receive 80 percent of the amount of that allocation when a student attends the school.
378	Chair Backlund	Clarifies the 80 percent is for grades kindergarten through eighth.
380	Smith	Concurs and adds that 95 percent of per student funds for grades nine through twelve go to charter schools.
381	Whalen	Points out the percentage does not account for the loss of all responsibility for the education of the students.
390	Bob Siewert	ODE. Testifies in favor of HB 2509. Delineates the process of appeals.
425	Rep. Hopson	Understands that those who ask for waivers have received them.
428	Siewert	Affirms.
432	Rep. Hopson	Clarifies that PYC has not requested a waiver.
435	Siewert	Affirms.
437	Rep. Hopson	Asks what oversight is given in helping charter schools to realize when they are unsuccessful.
439	Siewert	Defers to Ms. Gilles.
TAPE 24, B
003	Rep. Avakian	Clarifies which part of the bill the waiver can be applied to.
006	Joanie Gilles	ODE. Explains that the waiver can apply to all parts of the bill with the exception of those listed.
013	Rep. Hopson	Restates interest in the oversight and accountability of charter schools.
018	Gilles	Answers and explains how ODE is involved in the process.
034	Rob Kramer	Executive Director, Oregon Charter Schools Association. Testifies in opposition of HB 2509. Recalls the problems faced by the legislature when the charter school policy first evolved. Informs the committee that charter schools have been waiting for the provision to sunset. Believes the issue is central to the charter school laws.
093	Rep. Avakian	Asks if both the public schools and the charter schools have economic interests.
095	Kramer	Responds that he does not believe so.
097	Rep. Avakian	Clarifies the perceived economic interest of public employees and those employed by charter schools.
099	Kramer	Restates earlier comments.
102	Rep. Avakian	Questions his opinion on unions.
103	Kramer	Replies the issue does not concern that. Explains it is specifically intended for the narrow economic interest of a group. Believes it is bad public policy. Believes the provision would significantly change charter school law in Oregon.
116	Chair Backlund	Announces that adults also have the best interest of the students in mind.
120	Kramer	Believes that may the case.
124	Chair Backlund	Voices concern that he disagree with this perception.
130	Kramer	Replies that was not his suggestion. Reiterates that the provision is specifically intended to limit children in charter schools for narrow economic interests.
139	Rep. Avakian	Requests Mr. Kramer’s notion of charter schools.
144	Kramer	Answers that charter schools are a choice.
154	Rep. Avakian	Asks what the purpose of the provision was.
156	Kramer	Believes it allows for a smooth transition of a statewide charter model.
163	Rep. Avakian	Asks what the transition is supposed to accommodate.
165	Kramer	Answers that question should be posed to those that requested it.
166	Rep. Avakian	Asks if he was one of those people.
167	Kramer	Negates.
172	Farr	Comments on this. Poses question regarding the breakdown of funds with regard to charter schools. States he is a proponent of charter schools because they provide specific services for students. Points out the potential loss of students altogether if the programs become unavailable.
219	Rep. Hopson	States she does not subscribe to the present hypothesis. Points out the fiscal climate to counter.
223	Kramer	Challenges the assumption that charter schools affect districts.
235	Rep. Hopson	Counters opinion.
239	Jim Green	Oregon School Boards Association. States OSBA membership is split on HB 2509. Explains the reasoning behind the creation of the cap. Discusses costs concerning charter schools. Lists concerns of districts regarding charter schools.
310	Rep. Hopson	Poses question regarding oversight of failing charter schools.
323	Green	Explains the closure of a school due to lack of students. Estimates the time spent on the closure. Adds it is a rigorous process to create, and to close, a charter school. Lists reasons for specific charter school closures in Oregon.
362	Rep. Nolan	Invites Ms. Whalen back to testify. Asks her views on the origination of the provision and the interests behind it.
379	Whalen	Explains that OEA wants HB 2509 to become a law because it is fiscally responsible. Responds to the question of interests.
TAPE 25, B
002	Whalen	Continues that it is hard to justify the programs when the funding does not exist.
009	Chair Backlund	Closes public hearing on HB 2509. Adjourns meeting at 3:02 PM.

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

A – HB 2193, Bret West, 1 p

B – HB 2509, Ellen Wojahn, 2 p

C – HB 2509, Laurie Wimmer-Whalen, 1 p