HOUSE COMMITTEE ON

ENVIRONMENT AND LAND USE

 

 

February 13, 2003   Hearing Room HR E

8:30 AM Tapes  19 - 20

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:            Rep. Bill Garrard, Chair

Rep. Dennis Richardson, Vice-Chair

Rep. Cliff Zauner, Vice-Chair

Rep. Robert Ackerman

Rep. Dan Doyle

Rep. Mitch Greenlick

Rep. Diane Rosenbaum

 

 

STAFF PRESENT:                  Ray Kelly, Committee Administrator

David Peffley, Committee Assistant

 

 

MEASURES HEARD:                     HB 2468 – Public Hearing          

                                                HB 2458 – Public Hearing

                                                HB 2533 – Public Hearing

 

 

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 19, A

003

Chair Garrard

Calls the meeting to order at 8:45 and opens a public hearing on        HB 2468.

HB 2458 and HB 2468 - PUBLIC HEARING

008

Rep. Jenson

HD 58.  Hermiston, Pendleton. Speaks to HB 2458 regarding the Endangered Species Act. (ESA).  States the intent of the statute with regard to the federal government. 

064

Rep. Kropf

States that if the federal government delists an animal from the ESA, then Oregon should do likewise.  Remarks that the federal government has much tougher guidelines.  

085

Rep. Rosenbaum

Asks how many species are still listed in Oregon which have been removed by the federal government.

090

Rep. Jenson

Responds that he isn’t sure.  Recommends asking Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife (ODFW).

096

Rep. Greenlick

Asks witnesses to confirm lines 12-14 on of HB 2458 regarding the statute and their applicability to the federal Endangered Species Act.

113

Rep. Jenson

Confirms that species can still be added to the list.

136

Rep. Greenlick

Asks if ODFW has delisting authority.

143

Rep. Jenson

States that he doesn’t  know.  Continues that they may require an amendment to this bill. 

150

Rep. Kropf

Adds that Rep. Greenlick’s concern will be addressed by HB 2468.

160

Brendan McCarthy

Legislative Council.  Responds to Rep. Greenlick’s concern regarding listing species.

189

Rep. Kropf

HD 17.  Introduces HB 2468, retaining the flexibility to list a species in the state before it is listed by the federal government. 

220

Rep. Jenson

Recommends approval of HB 2468.  Refers to the Oregon Plan for recovery as an example of this kind of legislation. 

248

Rep. Kropf

Adds that HB 2468 would limit the duplicative listings.

315

Chair Garrard

Acknowledges that the committee agrees to hear both bills, but asks the witnesses to differentiate between the two.

320

Glen Stonebrink

Oregon Cattlemen’s Association and the Oregon Hay and Forage Association.  Speaks in support of HB 2458.  Reiterates that this bill would eliminate duplication which would save the state money. 

357

Stonebrink

Speaks to HB 2468.  States that it would eliminate the grandfather clause, which does not  make much sense.  Cites the grey wolf case as an example. 

TAPE 20, A

004

Roy Elicker

ODFW.  Submits (EXHIBIT A) informational testimony regarding  HB 2458.  States concern with the proposed legislation.  Recommends a work group to examine these issues further. 

070

Ron Anglin

Explains Attachment A to (EXHIBIT A)-concerns and potential improvements to the State ESA. 

125

Chair Garrard

Asks Anglin to define the connotation of the word take.

131

Anglin

Defines take as it relates to this issue.  Continues testimony on potential improvements.

145

Rep. Rosenbaum

Asks how many species are on the list and how many have been removed.

151

Martin Nugent

Wildlife Diversity Program Manager, ODFW.  Notes that there are thirty-six listings of species and five which the federal government has removed.

163

Chair Garrard

Asks if any species have ever been delisted.

167

Nugent

Responds with the 1994 case of the whitetail deer becoming delisted.

171

Rep. Greenlick

Asks which are the five species which should be removed.

175

Nugent

Lists the animals which are being removed from federal list. 

180

Rep. Greenlick

Asks if the delisting process would remove all five.

182

Nugent

Responds that the mechanisms to delist a species are in effect now.

188

Rep. Greenlick

Asks about the status of the grandfathered species.

190

Nugent

Provides that there are no distinctions in the current statutes for grandfathering.

196

Elicker

Points out that ODFW disagrees with Legislative Counsel with regard to this issue.

210

Elicker

Provides informational testimony on HB 2468.  Submits (EXHIBIT B) and speaks to the issues of duplication and flexibility for the state.  Cites the example of the Modoc sucker fish.

257

Chair Garrard

Asks why we would want to list a species if the federal government already does.

260

Elicker

Responds to Chair Garrard’s concern.

271

Rep. Zauner

Asks about Oregon taking the lead in removing species from the federal ESA.

273

Elicker

Affirms that we’re better off to be active in listing and delisting species.

291

Stephen Kafoury

Oregon Chapter of the Wildlife Society.  Introduces the purpose of the Wildlife Society.  Speaks to the process of listing and delisting and that the issue is a scientific issue, not a political one.

354

Warren Aney

Oregon Chapter of the Wildlife Society.  Submits (EXHIBIT C) supporting testimony regarding HB 2458.  Recommends that the legislature take no action which would weaken Oregon’s protection of at-risk species. 

404

Rep. Richardson

Asks what is meant by the term scientifically credible evidence. 

415

Aney

States that it is evidence which has been established by proven scientific methods. 

440

Rep. Richardson

Asks if peer review and reproducible results would be enlisted in the process of listing and delisting species.

TAPE 19, B

007

Aney

States that this has been the case in the cases of which he is familiar.

014

Rep. Richardson

Asks what the process would be for delisting a species. 

017

Aney

Speaks to a couple of provisions.  Reiterates the importance of scientific and credible evidence.

028

Rep. Richardson

Explains that he is trying to determine how the scientific community arrives at information regarding delisting. 

045

Aney

Gives elements of scientific analysis which go into the listing and delisting of species.

063

Chair Garrard

States concern that scientific data is very subjective and potentially a non-credible barometer. 

074

Aney

Addresses Chair Garrard’s concerns regarding the Klamath water issue.

091

Kafoury

Says that they would reproduce the findings which Aney referred to.

095

Chair Garrard

Reaffirms skepticism of scientific data. 

104

Kafoury

Addresses scientific process. Affirms that science is not always perfect, but is based upon the best available evidence and the alternative of not dealing with the best available evidence is cause for greater concern. 

123

Chair Garrard

Cites concern with bias involved with science. 

130

Kafoury

Attests to the peer review process which helps to safeguard against bias.

136

Aney

Submits (EXHIBIT D) in opposition to HB 2468 and states concern that HB 2468 would weaken Oregon’s laws protecting species at risk of extinction in Oregon. 

211

Aney

Adds that the bald eagle has been downgraded on the protection list.

223

Chair Garrard

Asks how many species annually move on the list, either up or down.

229

Aney

Recalls that only about one species per year moves on the list.

238

Kafoury

States the willingness to serve on a work group to address this legislation.

246

Rep. Greenlick

Comments that he’d like to see two pieces of testimony in opposition to both HB 2458 and HB 2468 entered into the record, (EXHIBIT E) from the Hell’s Canyon  Preservation Council and (EXHIBIT F) from the Defenders of Wildlife.

263

George Hutchinson

Coalition for the Recovery of Oregon Wolves (CROW).  Voices a strong opposition to HB 2458 and HB 2468.  Believes that this act will undercut the Oregon ESA.  Encourages wide coalition work group to examine this issue. 

311

Jennifer Flynt

Audubon Society.  Introduces (EXHIBIT G) in strong opposition to HB 2458 and HB 2468, believing that certain species need protection.

387

Rep. Rosenbaum

Asks for clarification of Flynts assertions regarding the process of federal delisting of endangered species.

396

Flynt

Responds that she will research the issue and report back to the committee.

401

Rep. Richardson

Attempts to clarify the transfer of responsibility from the state to the federal government. 

409

Flynt

Agrees to the intent with Rep. Richardson.

TAPE 20, B

002

Al Elkins

Testifies in support of HB 2458.  Adds that he’d like to participate in a work group to address these issues. 

025

Jim Welsh

Oregon State Grange.  Testifies in support of both HB 2458 and        HB 2468 in order to reduce duplication.  Volunteers to serve on a work group.

038

Rep. Greenlick

Asks what issues the Grange is interested in specifically, and whether their opposition is a technical matter or if the Grange wants to get rid of protections. 

049

Welsh

States concern for the technical issues and the costs to the state.

058

Chair Garrard

States that he will consider appointing a work group.

066

Chair Garrard

Asks Mark Nugent about the dollar figure inherent in duplication.

069

Nugent

Testifies that in fact the federal government contributes money for endangered species protection, so duplication might not cost us money at all, but have a positive fiscal impact.

111

Chair Garrard

Notes that a referral could possibly be needed.

114

Nugent

Speaks to the benefits of working in partnership with the federal fish and wildlife service. 

117

Chair Garrard

Asks how much money might be involved.

119

Nugent

Speaks to funding dollars for the recovery program.

133

Rep. Ackerman

States concern that there are no federal ESA officials are here to testify  and would like their input.  References previous predator legislation.

157

Chair Garrard

Ends testimony and closes the public hearing on HB 2458 and 2468. Opens a public hearing on HB 2533, which parallels HB 2466, heard earlier in the week.  Announces his intention to merge these two bills.

HB 2533 – PUBLIC HEARING

171

Lana Butterfield

Northwest Propane Gas Association.  Submits (EXHIBIT H) and testifies in support of HB 2533 as it would take care of some of the issues raised by HB 2466 heard on Tuesday.

185

Chair Garrard

Closes the public hearing on HB 2533 and adjourns the meeting at 10:25 a.m.

 

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A – HB 2458, written testimony, Roy Elicker, 4 pp.

B – HB 2468, written testimony, Roy Elicker, 1 p.

C – HB 2458, written testimony, Warren Aney, 1 p.

D – HB 2468, written testimony, Warren Aney, 1 p.

E – HB 2458 and HB 2458, written testimony, Rep. Greenlick, 2 pp.

F – HB 2458 and HB 2468, written testimony, Rep. Greenlick, 11 pp.

G – HB 2468, written testimony, Jennifer Flynt, 2 pp.

H – HB 2533, written testimony, Lana Butterfield, 6 pp.