HOUSE COMMITTEE ON

ENVIRONMENT AND LAND USE

 

 

March 11, 2003   Hearing Room HR E

8:30 Tapes  33 - 34

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:            Rep. Bill Garrard, Chair

Rep. Dennis Richardson, Vice-Chair

Rep. Cliff Zauner, Vice-Chair

Rep. Robert Ackerman

Rep. Dan Doyle

Rep. Mitch Greenlick

Rep. Diane Rosenbaum

 

 

STAFF PRESENT:                  Ray Kelly, Committee Administrator

David Peffley, Committee Assistant

 

 

MEASURES HEARD:                     HB 2431 – Work Session

                                                HB 2362 – Public Hearing

 

 

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 33, A

003

Chair Garrard

Calls the meeting to order at and opens a work session on HB 2431.

HB 2431 – WORK SESSION

010

Chair Garrard

Announces the -3 amendments to HB 2431 (EXHIBIT A) as requested by the Oregon Supreme Court. 

018

Ray Kelly

Introduces the -3 amendments to the committee. 

049

Rep. Zauner

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT HB 2431-3 amendments dated 3/10/03.

052

Rep. Richardson

Asks for confirmation on the part of the bill to be amended.

055

Kelly

Affirms Rep. Richardson.

057

Rep. Richardson

States that he would like time to read the amendment.

060

Rep. Ackerman

Asks if the changes are substantive or procedural.

064

Chair Garrard

States that the changes are procedural.  States his intention to appoint a  work group for HB 2431.  Offers to hold off on moving the amendments until a work group considers the bill.

072

Rep. Rosenbaum

Recommends deferring action on the amendment until the work group considers the bill.

075

Chair Garrard

Requests Rep. Zauner to withdraw the motion.

078

Rep. Zauner

Withdraws the motion to adopt the -3 amendments to HB 2431.

082

Chair Garrard

Announces the formation of a work group.  Gives the work group three weeks to return with recommendations.

092

Rep. Ackerman

States that he’d like the work group to address assessed value. 

098

Chair Garrard

Asks John Lilly to ensure that the work group addresses assessed value.

101

John Lilly

Assistant Director, Division of State Lands.  Notes Rep Ackerman’s concern.

111

Rep. Greenlick

Notes confusion with Section 2 regarding permit applications.  Requests that the work group address the language to make it more easily understood.

114

Chair Garrard

Asks Lilly to note that we’d like to streamline this process.

119

Rep. Richardson

Speaks to addressing the time provisions contained within the bill.

126

Rep. Ackerman

Concurs with Rep. Richardson.  Also hopes the work group to consider the assessed values contained in Section 2.

143

Chair Garrard

Speaks of the -4 amendments which combines Mel Stewart’s amendment with the Supreme Court amendment.  Closes the work session on HB 2431 and opens a public hearing on HB 2362.  

HB 2362 – PUBLIC HEARING

154

Kelly

Summarizes HB 2362.

163

Jennifer Flynt

Audubon Society of Portland.  Submits (EXHIBIT B) and introduces Jeff Merrick.

182

Jeff Merrick

Testifies in opposition to HB 2362.  Asserts that it is not duplicative to list a species on both the federal and state Endangered Species list.

210

Chair Garrard

Interjects the preponderance of bald eagles in his district, Klamath Falls.

220

Merrick

Continues and attests to the jurisdiction  of Oregon’s Endangered Species Act ESA vis-à-vis the federal ESA.  Also addresses the concern about our right to gather information which would be compromised by HB 2362. 

260

Rep. Richardson

Asks Merrick if he believes that if bald eagles were delisted they would be annihilated.

264

Merrick

States that he doesn’t, but reasserts that his point that it is important for Oregon not Washington D.C. to control what species are listed.

269

Rep. Richardson

Asks if this addresses the ability to sue.

274

Merrick

Restates that if we pass this act, we are likely to be sued.

284

Chair Garrard

Speaks to his district being compromised by the ESA economically, thus, we might need to amend this act. 

299

Merrick

Reasserts that the State should be involved in the listing process.

302

Chair Garrard

Notes that the God Squad has rarely been called into action.

313

Merrick

Responds with agreement to the Chair.

325

Rep. Greg Smith

Sponsor of HB 2362 testifies in support to HB 2362 and the reasons and intent for this legislation.   States that the federal ESA is sufficient, but that the state does not need to be involved.  Asserts that overzealous enforcement of the ESA has compromised development and farming. 

410

Glen Stonebrink

Testifies in support of HB 2362.  Submits (EXHIBIT C), (EXHIBIT D), and (EXHIBIT E)  and clarifies previous testimony from the Audubon Society.  Explains the intent of the bill to eliminate duplication in the ESA system. 

TAPE 34, A

010

Stonebrink

Continues testimony in support of HB 2362.  Cites the Tarno amendment  Speaks to the costs of the ESA and reaffirms the need to minimize duplication.

050

Rep. Greenlick

Asks for the basis of Stonebrink’s argument regarding the Oregon Constitution.

060

Stonebrink

Clarifies his position on the Constitution and the role of government. 

071

Rep. Greenlick

Affirms that there are many laws enacted for people and asks Stonebrink if he would apply the same test to the Cattlemen’s industry.  Asks how far we should take the argument.

090

Stonebrink

Gives a hypothetical to address his point on the role of government.  States that we should first look at what is allowed by the constitution.  Asserts that the federal ESA overrides and protects the same species.

116

Rep. Ackerman

Notes that the impact statement states that there is no revenue impact.

121

Kelly

Affirms no revenue impact and states that we don’t yet have a fiscal statement.

133

Rep. Ackerman

Asks Stonebrink about the role of the legislature vis-à-vis the general welfare clause.

139

Stonebrink

Clarifies his point that needs are what are focused on in the Constitution.

150

Chair Garrard

Reminds the committee about the testimony on two similar bills.  Notes that this is the third bill on the subject of the ESA.  Recalls testimony that the federal government pays 75% of the costs for investigation. 

172

Stonebrink

Notes that the 75% clause applies to recovery of species.  Speaks to a huge cost involved in recovery. 

201

Les Helgeson

Native Fish Society.  States that the state ESA does have utility and supports HB 2362.  Testifies that the state ESA is not entirely duplicative.  Asserts that the problems in the Klamath are attributable to the federal government, not that of the state.

250

Roy Elicker

Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife (ODFW)  Submits (EXHIBIT F) and testifies in opposition to HB 2362.  Asserts that the state ESA is very important in the listing process, especially in the light that the federal government is moving in the direction of not being involved with the listings. 

360

Rep. Doyle

Asks whether all states have their own state ESA.

365

Elicker

Replies that most do, but not all.

370

Rep. Doyle

Refers to (EXHIBIT F) and asks how those other states would compete for federal dollars.  Asks how the recovery of transient animals is dealt with.

391

Martin Nugent

ODFW.  Responds to the state ESA and how migratory species on state lands are dealt with.

424

Rep. Richardson

Asks what portion of ODFW’s budget is expended in some facet of implementing Oregon’s ESA.

433

Elicker

States uncertainty, but informs the committee that he will research the answer to that question.

TAPE 33, B

003

Rep. Richardson

Expresses concern about the fiscal impact.

007

Rep. Greenlick

Asks Elicker about the role of ODFW and what the consequences of abolishing the OESA would be. 

028

Elicker

States that the federal government would still provide some funding.  The effect would be that many local agencies running the show. 

047

Rep. Greenlick

Asks how the passage of HB 2368 would alleviate financial burden.

057

Elicker

Confirms that ODFW would still have work to do whether the act is in place or not.

070

Rep. Ackerman

Asks Elicker whether, he thinks that the federal government would be more active if HB 2368 passes. 

074

Elicker

Responds that he believes that would be the case.

084

Stephen Kafoury

The Wildlife Society.  Reaffirms the scientific nature of The Wildlife Society and notes that their testimony will be of that scientific nature.

106

Warren Aney

Submits (EXHIBIT G) and testifies to the state’s role in wildlife management and it’s importance.  Asserts that removing the state ESA would have serious consequences for the state.

203

Rep. Greenlick

Asks a hypothetical question on whether the state has the authority to deal with endangered species. 

210

Aney

States that you can pretty much do what you want on your own land.

217

Kafoury

States that this is a grey area and unclear.

232

Rep. Greenlick

Asks about HB 2362’s ability to deal with issues involving one’s own land.

241

Kafoury

Confirms that private land is excepted. 

246

Rep. Richardson

Expresses interest in the revenue impact as to the state’s budgetary consideration.

252

Kafoury

States agreement that government spending should certainly be scrutinized.

258

Aney

Confirms the federal money coming into the state.

270

Rep. Rosenbaum

Asks for the reasons for protection from public disclosure.

278

Aney

Speaks to the need for this protection, including vandalism. 

289

Rep. Zauner

Asks the effect of a provisional sunset. 

298

Kafoury

Reaffirms that the Wildlife Society doesn’t want to get involved in that discussion. 

322

Chair Garrard

Restates his concern about overburdening protection and it’s importance vis-à-vis farming rights.

349

Kelly

Clarifies the distinction between the state and federal ESA and the specificity of the state ESA, which is much more narrow.

383

Greg Addington

Oregon Farm Bureau (OFB).  Submits (EXHIBIT H) and testifies in strong support of HB 2362.  Asserts that the state ESA is both redundant and duplicative. 

TPAE 34, B

002

Addington

Continues with OFB’s assertion that the state ESA is duplicative and in need of reform. 

013

Rep. Rosenbaum

Asks if OFB has any concerns about federal intervention overtaking state action.

018

Addington

States that this act does not preclude the state from taking action where necessary.  Reiterates that OFB does not see this act as a great benefit.

032

Rep. Richardson

Cites ORS 498.026 and addresses the fact that the takings language applies to the whole state.

049

Addington

Clarifies what the take means to the farmers.

054

Rep. Greenlick

Asks if the statute would go away if the state ESA were to go away. 

058

Rep. Richardson

States that the ORS can not preempt a federal statute.

060

Rep. Greenlick

States concern that this statute refers specifically to hunting.

067

Rep. Richardson

Cites a Department of Justice memorandum.

071

Chair Garrard

Cites a problem with the SMS and makes a necessary correction about fisheries in the Klamath Basin.  Closes the public hearing and adjourns the meeting at 10:12 AM.

 

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A – HB 2431, -3 amendment, staff, 13 pp.

B – HB 2362, written testimony, Jennifer Flynt, 3 pp.

C – HB 2362, written testimony, Glen Stonebrink, 1 p.

D – HB 2362, written information, Glen Stonebrink, 48 pp.

E – HB 2362, written information, Glen Stonebrink, 96 pp.

F – HB 2362, written testimony, Roy Elicker, 10 pp.

G – HB 2362, written testimony, Warren Aney, 2 pp.

H – HB 2362, written testimony, Greg Addington, 2 pp.