HOUSE COMMITTEE ON GENERAL GOVERNMENT

 

 

April 24, 2003 Hearing Room D

8:30 AM  Tapes 71 - 72

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:            Rep. Jerry Krummel, Chair

Rep. Donna Nelson, Vice-Chair

Rep. Floyd Prozanski, Vice-Chair

Rep. Brad Avakian

Rep. Derrick Kitts

Rep. John Mabrey

Rep. Kelley Wirth

 

STAFF PRESENT:                  Patrick Brennan, Committee Administrator

Jeana Harrington, Committee Assistant

 

MEASURES HEARD:                     HB 3101 – Work Session

                                                HB 3023 – Work Session

                                                HB 2167 – Work Session

                                                SB 8 – Work Session

                                                 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 71, A

004

Chair Krummel

Calls meeting to order at 8:46 AM. Opens work session on HB 3101.

HB 3101 – WORK SESSION

008

Rep. Betsy Close

House District 15. Testifies in favor of HB 3101. Explains the -2 amendments (EXHIBIT A). Comments on the letter by Cindy Hunt, Legislative Counsel Office (LC), that was submitted by Rep. Prozanski (EXHIBIT B).

130

Norma Rich

Oregon Chapter, Concerned Women of America (CWA). Testifies in favor of HB 3101.

140

Rep. Close

Notes that librarians are now filing lawsuits because they have to police the use of computers at their libraries.

143

Chair Krummel

Asks if she think the filters will be successful.

146

Rep. Close

Believes filters are very effective. Offers that she uses them at home.

154

Rep. Nelson

Poses question regarding recent Washington State legislation.

159

Rich

Responds that those concerns are addressed in the -2 amendments.

162

Chair Krummel

Clarifies the law would be like that of Washington State.

168

Rich

Negates that it would not as amended. 

172

Rep. Close

Believes it is in the best interest of the state to pass the bill.

179

Rep. Kitts

Asks who pays for the software required by the bill.

185

Rich

Refers the committee to a handout (EXHIBIT C).

190

Rep. Close

Explains the fiscal impact.

202

Rep. Kitts

Inquires that libraries will pay for the software with the budgets they have.

208

Rep. Close

Answers funding is not provided by the bill.

213

Rep. Kitts

Presumes the fiscal impact would warrant a subsequent referral to the committee on Ways and Means.

217

Rep. Close

Notes libraries already provide money for anti-virus software.

223

Chair Krummel

Refers the committee to the web address on the testimony provided for free anti-virus software on the testimony provided.

234

Rep. Kitts

Questions why there is not a subsequent referral.

239

Rep. Close

Counters that the estimate on cost is high. Notes that the potential lawsuits mentioned earlier would also cost the state money.

254

Rep. Kitts

Comments.

257

Chair Krummel

Remarks on the high cost of software.

264

Rep. Prozanski

Presumes Rep. Close would like to move the bill amended with the -2 amendments.

266

Rep. Close

Affirms. 

268

Rep. Prozanski

Inquires if District 15 libraries utilize filters.

272

Rep. Close

Responds they do not have the software, and are worried about the cost.

278

Rep. Prozanski

Questions they are worried about the cost. Refers to the -2 amendments. Asks if the software would be capable of differentiating between the sex acts listed in the amendments.

290

Rep. Close

Explains the company she uses constantly monitors what it is filtering.

302

Rep. Prozanski

Asks if masturbation has been determined to be obscene.

306

Rep. Close

Explains the intent of the amendment.

310

Rep. Prozanski

Asks that there could be a conflict with the Oregon Constitution.

319

Rep. Close

Thinks the state is at the point where it should be forced to make judgment on the issue.

328

Rep. Prozanski

Asks why communities should not be allowed local control on the issue. Notes that the Oregon Constitution sides with local control.

334

Rep. Close

Offers that libraries receive federal and state funds.

345

Rep. Prozanski

Agrees that safe haven for children are necessary, but notes the state should not infringe on people’s right to non-sexually explicit material that may be inadvertently filtered.

378

Rep. Close

Notes there are alternatives for research and users should work within the law.

387

Rep. Mabrey

Remarks on a story he already told previously regarding pornography. Voices concern that he would like to protect people from occurrences of pornography but believe the bill does not do so. Struggles with the issue. Asks if the committee could refer the bill to Ways and Means. 

 

Seth Karpinski

City of Eugene. Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT D).

397

Patrick Brennan

Committee Administrator. Refers committee to the fiscal information provided.

401

Chair Krummel

Replies that it is possible as it may be an unfunded mandate.

403

Rep. Wirth

Voices concern for funds taken from libraries found to be in violation of the bill.

406

Rep. Close

Responds.

408

Rep. Wirth

Asks if Ready to Read grants could be removed.

410

Rep. Close

Responds the policy would be for all library computers.

TAPE 72, A

002

Rep. Avakian

Acknowledges the concerns of some committee members but reiterates that Legislative Counsel has advised that the bill may be unconstitutional.  

010

Rep. Close

Responds that protecting children is a compelling agreement and that she does not fully agree with the opinion of LC.

027

Rep. Kitts

Notes 105 libraries would need to purchase and the software. Notes the cost could be upwards of $315,000 based upon the information provided by the Legislative Fiscal Office (LFO).

041

Brennan

Presumes the estimates provided by LFO may have been based on software choices made by Baker County.  

051

Rep. Kitts

Clarifies the number.

053

Brennan

Responds he cannot tell if libraries are allowed to choose software and is unsure.

061

Rep. Avakian

Believes there is no problem in filtering obscene or illegal material, but explains the LC opinion is based in the fact that software can block permissible material.

075

Rep. Close

Responds that libraries are already selectively filtering in areas such as viruses. Explains she wants to see the courts draw a line on speech and protection. Quotes Brown v. Louisiana.

093

Rep. Nelson

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT HB 3101-2 amendments dated 4/15/03.

096

Rep. Prozanski

VOTE:  5-2

AYE:               5 - Avakian, Kitts, Mabrey, Nelson, Krummel

NAY:               2 - Prozanski, Wirth

 

Chair Krummel

The motion CARRIES.

 

 

 

105

Rep. Nelson

MOTION:  Moves HB 3101 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

 

 

 

115

Rep. Prozanski

MOTION:  Moves to TABLE HB 3101.

125

Rep. Prozanski

VOTE:  3-4

AYE:               3 - Avakian, Prozanski, Wirth

NAY:               4 - Kitts, Mabrey, Nelson, Krummel

 

Chair Krummel

The motion FAILS.

160

Patrick Brennan

Explains the motion. Requests the committee recess.

168

Rep. Prozanski

MOTION:  Moves to POSTPONE DEFINTELY HB 3101 until August 15, 2003.

180

Chair Krummel

Remarks on the motion.

190

Rep. Kitts

Asks if the committee would be called back to deliberate on the matter after that time should the legislature have already adjourned Sine Die.

200

Chair Krummel

Explains his understanding of the bill. Notes if the legislatures was reconvened for special session the committee could potentially debate the bill at that time.

210

Rep. Prozanski

Explains his reasoning for the motion. Notes everyone one the committee feels children should be protected. Believes the bill is unconstitutional and will not be sustained by the courts. 

220

Chair Krummel

Notes the date is debatable but not the issue.

225

Rep. Prozanski

Remarks.

230

Rep. Kitts

Asks if Rep. Prozanski would amend his motion to August 1, 2003.

234

Rep. Prozanski

Replies that date is acceptable.

237

Rep. Nelson

Clarifies the date.

241

Rep. Prozanski

MOTION:  Moves to AMEND the motion Moves to POSTPONE DEFINITELY HB 3101 until August 15, 2003 by substituting "August 1, 2003" for "August 15, 2003".

253

Chair Krummel

Clarifies.

265

 

VOTE:  5-2

AYE:               5 - Kitts, Mabrey, Prozanski, Wirth, Krummel

NAY:               2 - Avakian, Nelson

270

Chair Krummel

The motion CARRIES.

275

Chair Krummel

Explains the current motion to postpone consideration of the measure to August 1, 2003.

283

Rep. Nelson

Asks if the -2 amendments have been amended into the bill.

287

Chair Krummel

Affirms and explains the current motion.

301

Rep. Nelson

Clarifies the debate allowed.

306

Chair Krummel

Explains the only debate allowed on the current motion is the date to which the measure is to be postponed.

314

Ramona Kenady

Chief Clerk of the House. Explains that the merits of the bill cannot be debated, only the time period.

318

Rep. Nelson

Believes protection and safety of children is a state priority.

337

Chair Krummel

Asserts the debate must be kept to the time.

343

Rep. Nelson

Continues and questions why the bill must be postponed.

350

Rep. Prozanski

Explains the reasoning behind the definite postponement of the bill as it may allow proponents to work on the bill.

372

Rep. Nelson

Requests clarification as to the purpose of the current motion.

384

Rep. Mabrey

Asks whether any work could be done on the measure outside of the committee if the motion passes.  

395

Chair Krummel

Understands that if the bill is postponed, the current version of the bill may not return until the date agreed upon.

TAPE 71, B

004

Kenady

Explains the bill would postpone discussion of the current bill until the date allowed unless rules are suspended.

018

Rep. Avakian

Asks that is Sine Die occurs, can the bill move in an interim committee.

023

Kenady

Notes that interim discusses measures, and the measure could be pre-filed and that content, not vehicle could be continued and researched.

031

Rep. Kitts

Asks if Rep. Close agrees to the definite date moved.

041

Rep. Close

Voices concern that the bill will die in committee.

046

Rep. Prozanski

Repeats current motion to postpone definitely HB 3101 to August 1, 2003.

050

 

VOTE:  3-4

AYE:               3 - Avakian, Prozanski, Wirth

NAY:               4 - Kitts, Mabrey, Nelson, Krummel

 

Chair Krummel

The motion FAILS.

057

Chair Krummel

Discusses options for the bill. Requests Rep. Nelson to withdraw her motion to send HB 3101 to the floor as amended.

063

Rep. Nelson

Declines to withdraw her motion.

066

Rep. Kitts

Seconds the request to withdraw the motion in order to allow Rep. Close to work the bill further.

075

Rep. Kitts

MOTION:  Moves to POSTPONE DEFINITELY HB 3101 until             

                     April 29, 2003.

085

Rep. Mabrey

Poses question.

089

Chair Krummel

Explains the question is not germane and cannot be heard.

100

Rep. Prozanski

Voices concern the date is too soon to allow for work on the bill as amended. Does not support the motion for the selected date.

112

Chair Krummel

States he will support the motion, believes the carrier will have time to work on the bill. Notes the bill will be scheduled for committee on Tuesday and explains the probably work session on the bill.

128

 

VOTE:  3-4

AYE:               3 - Kitts, Mabrey, Krummel

NAY:               4 - Avakian, Nelson, Prozanski, Wirth

 

Chair Krummel

The motion FAILS.

133

Chair Krummel

States he will support the bill’s movement to the floor. Notes situation in Judiciary Committee where constitutional issues and a written opinion from LC opinion were ignored. Chooses to disregard the LC opinion.

150

Rep. Prozanski

Clarifies the letter was not of constitutional issues, but of fiduciary duties required by the bill. Differentiates the two.

160

Chair Krummel

Appreciates those comments.

162

Rep. Kitts

Poses procedural question.

171

Chair Krummel

Explains the situation concerning a conference committee.

175

Rep. Kitts

States he will vote against Rep. Nelson’s motion to move the bill to the floor.

183

Rep. Nelson

Comments on the motion. Speaks on the safety and security of children.

197

Rep. Avakian

Respects the intent behind the bill. Notes that each of the committee members took an oath to uphold the Constitution and argues that they should not support the measure on that basis.

208

Rep. Nelson

Responds that constitutionality is subject to interpretation.

214

Rep. Wirth

Opposes sending the bill to the floor. Believes violators should not be penalized by withholding funds for programs supporting children and otherwise.

235

Rep. Prozanski

States the bill is unconstitutional based on the only legal opinion presented to the committee and for those reasons, that judgment must be relied upon and not interpret it as the committee sees fit.

250

Rep. Mabrey

States he will be voting against the bill to the floor as he is not fully informed.

257

Rep. Avakian

MOTION: Moves the previous question.

260

 

VOTE:  5-2

AYE:               5 - Avakian, Mabrey, Prozanski, Wirth, Krummel

NAY:               2 - Kitts, Nelson

 

Chair Krummel

The motion CARRIES.

299

Rep. Nelson

Repeats the current motion to send the bill to the floor as amended.  

310

 

VOTE:  3-4

AYE:               3 - Kitts, Nelson, Krummel

NAY:               4 - Avakian, Mabrey, Prozanski, Wirth

 

Chair Krummel

The motion FAILS.

 

 

 

320

Rep. Mabrey

MOTION:  Moves HB 3101 to the floor WITHOUT      

                     RECOMMENDATION as to passage and BE   

                     REFERRED to the committee on Ways and Means.

 

 

 

323

Rep. Kitts

MOTION:  Moves to TABLE HB 3101 AS AMENDED definitely until May 1, 2003.

341

Rep. Kitts

Requests time to review new amendment and related information.

263

 

VOTE:  4-3

AYE:               4 - Kitts, Mabrey, Wirth, Krummel

NAY:               3 - Avakian, Nelson, Prozanski

 

Chair Krummel

The motion CARRIES.

 

 

 

 

Rep. Mabrey’s motion to refer HB 3101 as amended to the committee on Ways and Means is made moot by the passage of the motion to postpone the measure definitely until May 1, 2003.

378

Chair Krummel

Closes work session on HB 3101. Opens work session on HB 3023.

HB 3023 – WORK SESSION

390

Patrick Brennan

Reads SMS on HB 3023. Explains the -2 amendments (EXHIBIT E).

399

Chair Krummel

Notes he would like to move the bill today.

400

Rep. Prozanski

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT HB 3023-2 amendments dated 4/2/03.

403

 

VOTE:  7-0

 

Chair Krummel

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

409

Rep. Prozanski

MOTION:  Moves HB 3023 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation and BE REFERRED to the committee on Ways and Means by prior reference.

 

 

VOTE:  7-0

AYE:            In a roll call vote, all members present vote Aye.

 

Chair Krummel

The motion CARRIES.

412

Chair Krummel

Closes work session on HB 3023. Opens work session on SB 8.

SB 8 – WORK SESSION

414

Rep. Prozanski

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT SB 8-1 amendments dated 4/23/03.

417

Chair Krummel

Reminds the committee the emergency clause constitutes the -1 amendment (EXHIBIT F).

419

 

VOTE:  7-0

 

Chair Krummel

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

422

Rep. Prozanski

MOTION:  Moves SB 8 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

424

 

VOTE:  7-0

AYE:            In a roll call vote, all members present vote Aye.

 

Chair Krummel

The motion CARRIES.

REP. PROZANSKI will lead discussion on the floor.

426

Chair Krummel

Closes work session on SB 8. Opens work session on HB 2167.

TAPE 72, B

HB 2167 – WORK SESSION

013

Rep. Prozanski

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT HB 2167-1 amendments dated 4/18/03.

015

Chair Krummel

Explains the -1 amendments (EXHIBIT G).

026

Jack Kenny

Oregon Housing and Community Services (OHCS). States the allowances for the Oregon Commission on Voluntary Action and Service (OCVAS) and adds the commission and OHCS both support the bill.

032

Chair Krummel

Clarifies Rep. Gilman’s involvement with the amendments.

035

Kenny

Concurs.

037

 

VOTE:  7-0

 

Chair Krummel

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

040

Rep. Prozanski

MOTION:  Moves HB 2167 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

042

 

VOTE:  6-1

AYE:               6 - Avakian, Kitts, Mabrey, Prozanski, Wirth,       

                         Krummel

NAY:               1 - Nelson

 

Chair Krummel

The motion CARRIES.

REP. GILMAN will lead discussion on the floor.

044

Chair Krummel

Closes work session on HB 2167. Adjourns meeting at 10:48 AM.

 

 

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A – HB 3101-2, Staff, 2 pp

B – HB 3101, Rep. Floyd Prozanski, 2 pp

C – HB 3101, Norma Rich, 1 p

D – HB 3101, Seth Karpinski, 1 p

E – HB 3023-2, 1 p

F – SB 8-1, Staff, 1 p

G – HB 2167-1, Staff, 2 pp