February 06, 2003   Hearing Room E

3:00 PM Tape 15


MEMBERS PRESENT:            Rep. Tim Knopp, Chair

Rep. Alan Brown, Vice-Chair

Rep. Jeff Barker

Rep. Tom Butler

Rep. Greg Macpherson

Rep. Mary Nolan

Rep. Dennis Richardson

Rep. Wayne Scott


MEMBER EXCUSED:            Rep. Deborah Kafoury, Vice-Chair


STAFF PRESENT:                  Cara Filsinger, Administrator

Annetta Mullins, Committee Assistant


MEASURE/ISSUES HEARD:             HB 2004 - Public Hearing



These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.





Tape 15, A


Chair Knopp

Calls meeting to order at 3:08 p.m. and opens a public hearing on HB 2004.



Mary Botkin

American Federation of State County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME).  States they have been working with other unions and are interested in finding a solution that is less litigious.  Expresses concern about how actuarial tables are implemented, the timing and certainty of the date.  Recites questions that employees must answer in order to make their decisions to retire.   Explains that those who are providing services will not retire making more than their salaries.  Urges committee to make decisions so there can be predictability for the employees.


Chair Knopp

Acknowledges that not all employees retire making more than their salaries.


Jack Sollis

Responds to comments by Bill Gary on contract rights at a previous meeting.  States that when someone retires, it is a completed contract, not just a contract right.  Doubts that the court or the legislature can open up a completed contract that was completed by mutual agreement between the parties in go faith.  Thinks retroactivity will create legislation that a lot of attorneys would get rich on.  Comments on calculations of benefits at various times for various employees.  Cites enactments by the legislature since 1967.  Believes that implementation of the tables after 90 or 120 days and if there is a lookback in it, would be fine.  Believes those components are essential. 


Joe Schwinhart

Associated Oregon Industries (AOI).  Speaks in favor of HB 2004 and previous bills the committee has acted on.


Fred Andrews

PERS retiree and observer for the Lane County PERS Retirees Association.  Presents statement (EXHIBIT A).


Rep. Butler

Asks if it would be proper for someone to keep money that was erroneously in their bank account.



Responds he does not think that someone who retired January 1 of this year should be affected by a retroactive date.


Rep. Butler

Comments it would not make it right if a bunch of people took advantage of the bank.  States that he fears moving forward with anything less than what the judge directed.   


Rep. Barker

Asks if Andrews sees a difference between a person who decides to retire today and one who retired January 1, 2003 if the date of the mortality tables is retroactive to January 1.



Responds affirmatively.  Adds that it is the prerogative of the legislature to set the date.  Does not think it would be fair to post-date it because people are making decisions based on information from the PERS Board, and the Boar is responsible to the legislature.


Chair Knopp

Advises that the committee has received a statement from Wally Curtis and that it is made a part of the record (EXHIBIT B). 


Michelle Deister

League of Oregon Cities (LOC) and representing LOC, the Association of Oregon Counties, the Oregon School Boards Association, and Special Districts Association of Oregon.  Submits copy of comments presented to the PERS Board on the Board’s draft administrative rule for implementation of the mortality tables (EXHIBIT C).  States they continue to advocate for full and immediate implementation of the mortality tables pursuant to Judge Lipscomb’s ruling.  Notes recommendations to the PERS Board (EXHIBIT C, page 2). 


Chair Knopp

Advises that employers and employees need to reach an agreement by next Thursday.  Counsels members and interested parties on efforts to reach a resolution.  Expresses intent of the Chair for future committee agendas. 


Chair Knopp

Adjourns meeting at 3:33 p.m. 





A – HB 2004, prepared statement, Fred Andrews, 1 p

B – HB 2004, prepared statement, Wally Curtis, 2 pp

C – HB 2004, memo to PERS Board, Mary Deister, 2 pp