|
|
TAX
REFORM DISCUSSION |
|
|
TAPE 221-222
, A-B |
JULY 11,
2003 8:30 AM STATE CAPITOL BUILDING
Members Present: Representative Lane Shetterly, Chair
Representative
Wayne Scott, Vice Chair
Representative
Joanne Verger, Vice Chair
Representative
Phil Barnhart
Representative
Vicki Berger
Representative
Pat Farr
Representative
Mark Hass
Representative
Elaine Hopson
Representative
Max Williams
Witness Present: Representative Max Williams,
District 35
Representative
Ben Westlund, District 53
Staff Present: Paul
Warner, Legislative Revenue Officer
Kathy
Tooley, Committee Assistant
TAPE 221, SIDE A
|
004 |
Chair Shetterly |
Calls meeting to order at 9:10 a.m. |
|
010 |
Rep. Williams |
Discusses the hearings from the last two weeks and the wide diversity
of opinion in Oregon on tax reform. Refer to verbatim testimony (Exhibit 1). States
that a majority agreed that the tax system was broken and needs reform and
that lacking the Legislature’s ability to put together a tax reform proposal,
there will be a number of efforts through the initiative process that might
not be as successful. Discusses reasoning for bringing forward HB 3500. |
|
|
|
|
|
110 |
Rep. Williams |
Addresses the arguments of regressivity, federal deductibility, cost
of administration, and the shrinking base of sales taxes. |
|
|
|
|
|
156 |
Rep Williams |
Discusses the benefits of a tax reform system that includes an
additional broad base and the politics on this issue. |
|
|
|
|
|
248 |
Rep. Westlund |
Provides committee with analysis of testimony heard during the two
weeks of tax reform discussion. States that Oregon needs fundamental,
comprehensive, and effective tax reform now. Discusses the responsibility of
the Legislature to address the tax reform issue. |
|
|
|
|
|
343 |
Verger |
Asks what to say to those who sincerely believe that Oregon has a
spending problem and not a tax problem, pointing to the fact that when there
were jobs, revenue was more than adequate to fund services. |
|
|
|
|
|
350 |
Westlund |
Responds that that point highlights the need for fundamental tax
reform because of dependency on the volatile income tax, which produces too
much revenue when times are good and not enough when times are bad. States
that the fundamental reason for tax reform is the stability issue. |
|
|
|
|
|
390 |
Chair Shetterly |
States that there are clearly elements of both spending and revenue
problems and that reform does not exclude one or the other. |
|
|
|
|
|
400 |
Rep. Westlund |
Points out that they have cut $1 billion out of last biennium’s budget
and initiated reforms to create efficiency. |
|
|
|
|
|
415 |
Rep. Hass |
Discusses the argument given by some that a sales tax is regressive
and that they should just increase the beer and cigarette taxes. Argues that
the beer and cigarette taxes are more regressive than any sales tax and
discusses the misinformation regarding tax reform. |
TAPE 122, SIDE A
|
030 |
Rep. Westland |
Agrees with Rep. Hass on the need for legislators to educate
constituents as to where revenue is coming from. |
|
|
|
|
|
044 |
Rep. Berger |
Expresses appreciation for the thoughts of Rep. Williams and Rep.
Westlund, and states that she is open to tax reform but not a new tax. Discusses factors of fairness, stability,
and adequacy and states that she is not convinced a sales tax would
strengthen fairness or adequacy. Expresses concern for the lack of
deductibility and the cost to administer. Supports looking at the kicker or
other ways to force the Legislature to put money away in the good times for
the bad times. |
|
|
|
|
|
115 |
Rep. Scott |
States that it is clear that reform is something the Legislature
should carefully review, but that he is not convinced that Oregon needs a
sales tax. Disagrees with statement that if a sales tax is implemented every
Oregonian would pay less in taxes. Asserts that reform must include spending
habits and that they must satisfy the majority of citizens. |
|
|
|
|
|
161 |
Rep. Farr |
Discusses accomplishments of the session including spending cuts and
eliminating government inefficiencies. Quotes witnesses on the need for tax
reform. Discusses the need for human services. Asserts that this is only the
beginning of the discussion and much more deliberation is needed. Suggests
that a work plan be put in place to continue the work of the committee with a
date certain to report back to the body with a plan for tax reform. |
|
|
|
|
|
252 |
Rep. Hopson |
Disagrees a little with Rep. Williams in that she doesn’t believe HB
3500 succeeds in its mission if it just sparks a discussion. Discusses witness testimony and the
opinion held by most that something needs to be done. States that they have had a conversation
with the public and that continuing that discussion won’t bring up anything
new. Expresses concern that tax structures are built around being business
friendly. Agrees that tax reform cannot be solves in two or three weeks and
that they need to go out and listen to the public even if it only
substantiates what they have already heard. States that the Legislature is
obligated to do something. |
|
|
|
|
|
380 |
Rep. Barnhart |
States that Oregon is in a crisis in that it cannot provide services
and also in the disagreements on what the basic facts are. |
TAPE 121, SIDE B
|
042 |
Rep. Barnhart |
Expresses concern with the current business climate. Discusses basic
public services that should be provided and the threat to public schools.
Supports a progressive tax system, but states that he is willing to give up
some progressiveness if that is essential to get to adequacy. Asserts that
the urgent thing to do is to adopt a budget and that the tax reform process
takes too long. |
|
|
|
|
|
127 |
Rep. Verger |
Questions if they are going to talk about not taxing people at the
lowest income. Asks if they are going to talk about tax expenditures. Questions
if people that testified did not feel the support of the group they
represented. Asks if people want action in this biennium. States that her
correspondence doesn’t tell her that everyone believes the tax system is
broken. Discusses the connection between taxation and economic development. |
|
|
|
|
|
184 |
Rep. Westlund |
Responds that issues still need to be resolved and that when they do
develop a tax reform proposal, it will be done as soon as possible but with
enough time to answer the questions. |
|
|
|
|
|
211 |
Rep. Verger |
Asks if this includes looking at how we tax the poor in Oregon and
tax expenditures. |
|
|
|
|
|
215 |
Rep. Westlund |
Responds affirmatively. |
|
|
|
|
|
217 |
Rep. Williams |
Responds that he does not believe that everyone believes the system
is broken, but that a majority of people do. Strongly believes that any
discussion be a comprehensive discussion but isn’t sure that there needs to
be another task force. Expresses concern that after this discussion nothing
will be done. |
|
|
|
|
|
240 |
Rep. Hass |
States that when they choose to not go forward on this they are also
choosing to stick with the current system that has given them a bad
reputation. |
|
|
|
|
|
267 |
Rep. Barnhart |
Declares that Oregon is the worst in the nation in hunger, but also
has one of the most progressive tax systems in nation, making it clear that a
flat tax system is not a solution for the poor. Agrees that reviewing how the
tax system affects the low income population is necessary, but asserts that
an adequate system is more important. Discusses the cyclical nature of tax
systems. |
|
|
|
|
|
317 |
Rep. Hopson |
Points out that this discussion is to identify the questions, issues,
concerns, and choices that are out there before looking to comprehensively
develop something. States that they never look at the big picture, which is
what they need to do. |
|
|
|
|
|
350 |
Chair Shetterly |
Responds that the legislature is uniquely qualified to look at the
big picture. |
|
|
|
|
|
356 |
Rep. Barnhart |
Responds that the Legislature is not good at doing that, but that
they have to do it. |
|
|
|
|
|
360 |
Chair Shetterly |
Declares that this has been one the finest exercises he has been involved
in. Discusses witness testimony. Expresses concern about what is next, but
believes that there is consensus that there is a revenue problem in Oregon.
Discusses the need for tax reform. |
TAPE 122, SIDE B
|
042 |
Chair Shetterly |
States that they are at a point where they need to recognize that
there is a serious problem and that they need to get to the budget
immediately and then continue the effort of reviewing tax reform. Commits to
continue efforts to form the most comprehensive reform possible. |
|
|
|
|
|
076 |
Rep. Verger |
Concludes with a quote from Robert Frost. |
|
|
|
|
|
084 |
Chair Shetterly |
Meeting adjourned at 10:48 a.m. |
Tape Log Submitted by,
Kathy Tooley, Committee
Assistant Tara Lantz, Committee Assistant
Exhibit Summary:
1.
Rep.
Williams, Written Testimony, 7pp.
2.
Ben
Brandon, Revised Written Testimony, 6pp.