SENATE COMMITTEE ON GENERAL GOVERNMENT

 

 

April 9, 2003                                                                                                           Hearing Room B

3:00 PM                                                                                                                          Tapes 37-40

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:         Sen. Tony Corcoran, Chair

Sen. John Minnis, Vice-Chair

Sen. Bruce Starr

Sen. Vicki Walker

 

STAFF PRESENT:                 Mark Ellsworth, Committee Administrator

Heather Gravelle, Committee Assistant

 

MEASURE/ISSUES HEARD:           SB 717 – Public Hearing

                                                SB 867 – Public Hearing

                                                SB 258 – Work Session

                                                SB 396 – Public Hearing

                                                SB 325 – Work Session

                                                SB 570, 883, 876, 730, 725, 726 – Public Hearings

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 37, A

005

Chair Corcoran

Calls the meeting to order at 3:10 PM. Opens a public hearing on SB 717.

SB 717 – PUBLIC HEARING

010

Mark Ellsworth

Committee Administrator. Provides an overview of SB 717 with -1 amendments. Presents -1 amendments dated 4/4/03 (EXHIBIT A).

015

Frank Morse

Oregon State Senator. Testifies in support of SB 717. Explains the history and background of SB 717.

035

Sen. Morse

Explains the intent and outcome of the bill. States the roles and responsibilities. Mentions review of performance. Discusses information on fair bidding, wages and benefits.

085

Chair Corcoran

Asks who would pay for the requirements.

090

Morse

States it is the Department of Administrative Services responsibility.

100

Chair Corcoran

Provides an example where child protective services contracted out family sex abuse treatment. Points out workers concerns:

  • Lack of oversight once contract out one of the services
  • From agency perspective viewed as taking services that were expensive and profitable and leaving the hard part such as placement of children

Asks how creaming issue dealt with.

115

Morse

Responds it is incumbent upon the Director of Department of Administrative Services to ensure it is handled appropriately.

135

Cathy Pollino

Director, Secretary of State Audits Division. Testifies as a neutral party on SB 717. Expresses concerns on amendments. Explains different audits. Proposes having a program audit instead of performance audit.  Adds having an annual may be too frequent so recommend revising the requirement. Recommends modifications of definitions of program and performance audit be deleted. Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT B).

170

Marcy Eastham

Oregon Public Affairs Manager, Hewlett Packard. Testifies in support of SB 717. Explains position.

195

Chair Corcoran

Asks where Hewlett Packard contracts their services.

200

Eastham

Responds many in Corvallis and operate in over 160 countries worldwide.

205

Chair Corcoran

Asks if any countries in Asia.

210

Eastham

Responds yes.

212

Chair Corcoran

Asks if any in Southeast Asia.

215

Eastham

Responds yes.

217

Chair Corcoran

Believes there is also one in Ireland.

219

Eastham

Responds there is a large one in Ireland.

225

Michael Slater

Political Director, SCIU Local 503 Public Employees Union. Testifies in opposition of SB 717. Explains position of the union. Expresses concerns the bill will reduce trust and presumption privatization is cost effective.

245

Slater

Discusses privatization. Provides examples. Claims a good option would be to privatize or contract out government services instead of trying to identify specific areas in advance where efficiencies may be gained. 

285

Mary Botkin

AFSCME Counsel 75. Testifies in opposition of  SB 717. Claims work currently with others to find ways to deliver services more effectively, especially when it comes to cost. Provides an example of use of public contracting dollars with roads. Notes the goal should be a cooperative venture between the private sector and public sector to find ways to deliver level of services others are demanding. Comments it makes those feel like they are a partner instead of a victim when every contract is reviewed.

350

Botkin

Points out it is hard to measure what a public service worker does. Adds the public sector does not want most of what they do. Provides examples. Notes there needs to be a balance.

360

Sen. Minnis

Asks if that is not the intent of SB 717. Points out the bill is trying to concentrate the discussion that is already happening but the public does not know it. Suggests the dialogue needs to be brought forth for the public to be aware of.

410

Botkin

Comments it is the presumption that everything should be privatized making people feel like victims instead of partners.

TAPE 38, A

015

Jessica Harris

Associated General Contractors. Testifies in support of SB 717. Expresses her opinion. Believes the bill creates an opportunity to the public and private sector to discuss what sections of government may be best outsourced. Urges possibly creating a process to determine what is most cost effective. Feels it is a good bill and good public policy.

030

Lisa Trussel

Associated Oregon Industries. Testifies in support of SB 717. Agrees with Ms. Harris’s comments.

040

Chair Corcoran

Closes the public hearing on SB 717 and opens a public hearing on SB 867.

SB 867 – PUBLIC HEARING

043

Mark Ellsworth

Committee Administrator. Provides an overview of SB 867.

048

Jackie Dingfelder

Oregon State Representative, District 45. Testifies in support of SB 867. Explains position. Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT C).

055

Rick Metsger

Oregon State Senator, District 26. Testifies in support of SB 867. Reiterates Representative Dingfelder’s testimony.

135

Billy Dalto

Oregon State Representative, District 21. Testifies in support of SB 867. Provides personal example of placing a computer in a dumpster. Comments on dangers in landfill system of accumulating these type of materials. Feels the bill is not a mandate on business but it is a necessary good to determine how to dispose of hazardous materials. Comments Marion County provides a place to recycle electronics.

155

Sen. Walker

Comments Eugene has a similar program for recycling.

165

Dalto

Encourages others on how to make a profitable business out of reclaiming consumer electronic products.

175

Floyd Prozanski

Oregon State Representative. Testifies in favor of SB 867. Feels bill is reasonable and puts components in place to get parties together to discuss seriousness of waste and how to deal with it.

190

Sen. Minnis

Refers to page 3, lines 6 & 7. Expresses concerns with language.

200

Dingfelder

Comments that is an excellent point and has been discussed in the pre-stages of SB 867. Mentions DEQ would not move forward until direction from the advisory committee. Claims the committee would not have the actual authority.

220

Sen. Minnis

Comments rules need to have origin in statute created by legislature. Urges advisory committee coming back with suggestions after working on the language.

230

Dingfelder

Responds open to discussion.

235

Sen. Walker

Mentions other programs that are available in Eugene.

240

Dingfelder

Affirms there are programs around the state. Claims this bill would help people to be informed there is an option for recycling. Hopes to look at ways to expand existing recycling infrastructure and create markets making it an economic development opportunity. Notes many cities and counties hesitate to advertise because they are overwhelmed.

260

Prozanski

Comments on recycling outdated electronics.

275

Frank Marella

Sharp Electronics, New Jersey. Testifies in support of SB 867.States how they do business in New Jersey. Claims there should be a national solution to the problem. Expresses concerns with large number of questions needing answers in this area which SB 867 could address. Notes willingness to strengthen infrastructure, educating consumers and retiring as many old products as possible that minimizes environmental impact. Points out Sharp is educating consumers on products directing people to a web site identifying where all the recycling events are located.

330

Steven McGeady

Testifies in support of SB 867. Expresses position. Claims Oregon has shown leadership through the years in addressing livability issues. Mentions specific examples. States why we are faced with the enormous wave of products which needs to be disposed of. States all multi-national companies will be faced with addressing the recycling issue. Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT D).

385

Chair Corcoran

Asks what Europe is doing that we are not doing.

395

McGeady

Explains bills have been passed and are currently operating.

400

Wayne Rifer

Cedar Mill. Testifies in favor of SB 867. Provides specific examples:

  • Waste is a local issue and the bill puts in a position to be able to be an early implementer
  • As an Oregonian, would not propose this bill if they thought it would hurt the current and future budget

Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT E)

TAPE 37, B

005

Sen. Minnis

Asks whether there have been a lot of problems with state or federal laws regarding the recycling problem in general. Claims problems have not been addressed.

020

Rifer

States the recycling of plastics from computers is a problem. Notes the concept behind the program is flow of product needs to be developed.

035

Sen. Minnis

Asks if industry is prepared to collect materials. Asks what is going to be done with all the materials which could be more expensive than raw materials.

045

Marella

Explains what happens with raw materials.  

050

Sen. Minnis

Asks where the product goes once it is created and recovered.  

055

McGeady

Claims not trying to leapfrog answers from questions that have not been fully examined yet.

060

Chair Corcoran

Closes the public hearing on SB 867 and opens a work session on SB 258.

SB 258 – WORK SESSION

0700

Chair Corcoran

Explains the amendments to SB 258. Presents the -2 amendments dated        4/9/03 (EXHIBIT F).

088

Dallas Weyand

Legislative Fiscal Office. Explains the amendments with detailed information. Claims information received from PERS.

115

Sen. Minnis

MOTION: Moves to ADOPT SB 258-2 amendments dated 4/9/03.      

120

 

VOTE:  4-0

 

Chair Corcoran

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

125

Sen. Minnis

MOTION:  Moves SB 258 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

130

Sen. Starr

Asks if there is an idea on money that will be saved.

133

Chair Corcoran

Responds has heard debate among attorneys about impact.

138

David Bailey

PERS Deputy Director. Comments on savings targeted at members under age 45. Explains PERS standpoint on the issue. States with a one year window unfunded liability of system would be reduced.   

145

Chair Corcoran

Asks whether a prediction can be made of inactive accounts with correct information to even contact them with.

150

Bailey

Responds that is another variable we don’t know. Claims there are not addresses for all the inactive accounts. Comments would like to include in fiscal some type of advertising to get the word out on availability.  

155

Chair Corcoran

Asks if there are any personal observation in your capacity as to the percentage of people eligible now that might jump on this.

160

Bailey

Responds cannot really answer that. Claims might survey part of the group prior to implementation of this to get a better idea of the answer to the question.

162

Sen. Minnis

Comments there are search firms to find people and have them sign a contract.  

170

Sen. Walker

States in the last hearing two months ago there were 45,000 inactive accounts and 16,000 were not vested employees.

175

 

VOTE:  4-0

AYE:            In a roll call vote, all members present vote Aye.

 

Chair Corcoran

The motion CARRIES.

SEN. FERRIOLLI will lead discussion on the floor.

180

Chair Corcoran

Closes the work session on SB 258 and opens a public hearing on SB 396.

SB 396 – PUBLIC HEARING

190

Mark Ellsworth

Committee Administrator. Provides an overview of SB 396.

195

Bob Repine

Citizen and former legislative member of the assembly. Claims not on state clock currently. Testifies in support of SB 396. States position and  mentions being haunted by the issue. States the law says when elected officials opt out of the PERS process then the only recourse they have is to make effort to modify the statutes to allow them to jump in to make buybacks possible.

225

Repine

Asks for legislative assembly to consider the opportunity for a window opportunity as bill suggests to allow for someone to buy back their PERS for a period of time they chose not to take based on situation at the time. Comments on making sure no costs are shifting to counties or cities. Mentions being in legislature.  

275

Chair Corcoran

Comments the state benefits from you making the change in your occupation because you have expertise in the work you do. Asks why you chose to opt out.

290

Repine

Responds it was not a political statement and the government arena was short and time to move on and do other things. Claims current retirement process is based on PERS so trying to buy back what might have had if using more sound thinking in the past.

300

Sen. Walker

Asks about comment on short trigger of sixty days when the bill states ninety days.

310

Repine

Claims he is wrong assuming it was sixty days.

315

Mike Caldwell

Citizen. Testifies in support of SB 396. Mentions personal experience. Requests an amendment to back it up to 1980 if do carry out the bill.  

365

Mary Botkin

Testifies in support of SB 396. Expresses view that best interest for Oregon is to promote and hold onto every talent and allow elected officials to buy back time not taken advantage of at the time. Claims no one should be forced out of PERS unless they want to be. Feels it is a good bill especially if no cost.  

385

Maria Keltner

Association of Oregon Counties League of Oregon Cities Oregon School Boards Association and Special Districts Association of Oregon. Testifies in opposition of SB 396. Expresses opposition in adding purchases that are not full cost.

400

Chair Corcoran

Asks if willing to work with PERS to draft acceptable language.

415

Sen. Minnis

Comments about buying back time for service in other states. Asks if it is true whether police officers from Los Angeles and other places are not able to do the same kind of buy in for services.

TAPE 38, B

005

Steve Delaney

PERS. Responds that is true; elaborates.

015

Sen. Minnis

Agrees with full purchase idea but need an even policy for everyone.

020

Chair Corcoran

Mentions working with PERS to draft language. Closes the public hearing on SB 396 and opens a work session on SB 325.

SB 325 – WORK SESSION

030

Chair Corcoran

Explains merging SB 750 into SB 325 with -3 amendments. Presents -3 amendments dated 4/8/03 (EXHIBIT G).

040

Sen. Minnis

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT SB 325 -3 amendments dated 4/8/03.

045

Sen. Minnis

MOTION:  Moves SB 325 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

045

Chair Corcoran

Comments -4 amendments arrived from John Powell. States there is much discussion.

050

Sen. Minnis

MOTION:  Moves to SUSPEND the rules for the purpose of reconsideration of SB 325.

055

 

VOTE:  3-0

EXCUSED:  1 – Sen. Walker

 

Chair Corcoran

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

085

John Powell

Oregon Sheriffs Association. Testifies in support of SB 325. Explains view and where it will apply. Presents the -4 amendments dated 4/9/03                 (EXHIBIT H).

100

Sen. Minnis

States it is a good idea. Provides personal experience.

115

Chair Corcoran

Claims have not heard much opposition.

120

Bethanne Darby

Oregon Education Association. Feels 1,039 hour rule is sufficient. Believes it is  important to allow younger, newer employees to move up in the ranks and acquire same level of opportunity. Understands uncertainty with PERS but feel in this environment it is poor public policy to allow retirees to collect money, especially in this economy where there aren’t enough jobs to begin with.

130

Starr

Asks if this bill applies to teachers or law enforcement.

140

Darby

Responds the bill applies to public safety only.

142

Chair Corcoran

Comments this bill applies to others such as National Guard.

142

Darby

Expresses opposition of  the bill and the amendments.

145

Mary Botkin

AFSCME Counsel 75. Believes there is a role for retirees and it is an important process. Feels building economy is having a lot of people with available funds.

150

Chair Corcoran

Asks how Polk County can benefit from that theory with two officers short.

155

Botkin

Responds 1,039 hours allows time to rebuild budget and an officer when needed. Claims we are not facing up to the problem which is a budget crisis. Acknowledges there is use for talent that the retired community provides and halftime employment gives employers opportunity to take advantage of the talent.  

165

Chair Corcoran

Asks if taking same position as Ms. Darby to not make any regional exceptions.

168

Botkin

Supported regional exceptions when 1,039 rule was added because understood the need to have the experienced work force with the new work force in a dangerous environment. Comment it is a difficult situation and feel no reason why new workers cannot be brought in with jobs being so limited.

180

Sen. Minnis

Mentions personal example of taking a test with lots of applicants for Portland Police Bureau. Discusses changing job market. Claims the problem is having talented people with the skills to do the job.

200

Botkin

Responds do not philosophically disagree. Notes economy is fragile right now needing the talent and ensure there is a younger work force following. Expresses concern in some communities not enough jobs for young people now and filling them up with retirees will make it worse.  

215

Tricia Smith

Oregon School Employees Association. Testifies in opposition of SB 328 -4 amendments. OSCA supports the concept for specific school employee jobs. Comments members do not want to lose their jobs. Believes school districts will not have the ability to hire new people to fill the positions. Feels good for schools and good for members as eligible to return to work without the 1039 restriction.  

258

Brian DeLashmutt

Oregon Counsel Police Associations. Discusses draw plan.

275

Sen. Minnis

Asks for more information on the draw plan and whether it works inter-agency.  

280

DeLashmutt

Understands it works in your agency or in another agency. Explains draw plan further. Explains it is tax-free.

310

DeLashmutt

Suggests before passing -4 amendments to work on the issue and go through discussion first coming to a reasonable solution setting perimeters. Claims was not aware of the John Powell amendments.

330

Chair Corcoran

Clarifies for the record that a double dipper is someone who draws two pensions and doesn’t work.

345

Sen. Walker

Agrees the term is incorrect.

350

DeLashmutt

Comments on hearing it in the press.

351

Chair Corcoran

Directs Mark Ellsworth to work with House staff and Representative Knopp to see how close they are to bringing it forward creating a combination bill. Closes the work session on SB 325 and opens public hearings on SB 570, SB 883, SB 876, SB 730, SB 725 and SB 726.

SB 570, 883, 876, 730, 725, 726 – PUBLIC HEARING

395

Chair Corcoran

Closes the public hearings on SB 570, SB 883, SB 876, SB 730, SB 725 and SB 726. Opens a public hearing on SB 867.

SB 867 – PUBLIC HEARING

420

Lori Stole

Resident of Washington County. Representing Recycling Advocates. Testifies in favor of SB 867. Explains position. Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT I).

460

Oso Martin

Resident of Portland, Oregon. Executive Director, Free Geek Community Technology Center. Testifies in favor of SB 867. Explains position. Expresses the problems people have with computer disposal. Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT J).

TAPE 39, A

025

Martin

Notes SB 867 is a model that can be duplicated nationally encouraging businesses to recycle with minimal cost.

050

Doug Myers

Association of Oregon Recyclers. Testifies in support of SB 867. Elaborates on recycling of computers and electronics. Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT K).

055

Chair Corcoran

Inquires about certain parts of the recycling process that are difficult to recycle. Asks if there are some materials in the computers that have no market for recycling.

065

Myers

Responds the question is too complicated for him but will research it and get back to the committee.

070

Sen. Minnis

Asks if it is a problem to find places for taking the materials.

075

Myers

Responds there is a problem with markets which varies.

085

Jim Craven

Testifies in favor of SB 867. Comments a lot of attention being paid on this issue. Claims if the best way is to mandate then back it up with funding. Points out specific language in the bill and would like to see the legislature give the direction. Expresses concern with section 5 that has Department of Administrative Services trying to determine language and definitions. Feels work is best done at the federal level. Claims very committed to continue working on the issue.

155

Craven

Discusses the Students Recycling Used Technology (StRUT) program.

160

Greg Sampson

Resident of Troutdale, Oregon. Points put impacts StRUT program has had in last two years. All done domestically, no exporting, diverted 4 million pounds of electronic waste from Oregon landfill, only work with vendors not putting materials in landfills. Placed an average 4,000 computers a year into use in Oregon schools. No charge to put over $2 million of new high end networking equipment back in school districts. Notes they will take any computer regardless of age or quality. Provides an example in Tillamook Middle School. Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT L).

190

Chair Corcoran

Asks if students are utilized in this work.

195

Sampson

Responds the program is similar to auto shop but with computers with students getting hands on experience and then the computer is returned into the K-12 system. Comments work closely with DEQ, Metro and other agencies.  

200

Sen. Minnis

Asks if tied into Mt. Hood Community College.

210

Sampson

Responds yes. Discusses instructor course started recently with the college.

215

Sen. Minnis

Asks how the program got started.

220

Sampson

Responds it started in 1995 and grew with Intel funding it the first three years. Claims $10 million of material all has gone into the schools within the last seven to eight years. Notes three years ago moved into actual reclamation portion of the program.

225

Sen. Minnis

Responds it is very innovative. Discusses  industry providing technical tools to community colleges with a lot of funding for equipment for many programs. Expresses interest in whether industry could collaborate with the public school system to get ideas going.  

240

Sampson

Responds programs are from 4th grade through high school.

245

Sen. Walker

Claims first learned of this program in 1999. Mentions experience.

255

Sampson

Notes charge a $10 fee to dispose of the monitor.

265

Sen. Walker

Comment to Mr. Craven about a bill in the 1999 session where there was money with no funding.

270

Jennifer Allen

Liaison, Economic Community and Development Department. Testifies in support of SB 867 to address problem of growing electronic waste. Discusses department involvement. Claims there would be a fiscal impact at the high end it would being $50,000. Notes the bill allows the department to receive funding from other sources as well.

280

Chair Corcoran

Asks if there are active fundraisers that ask for money.

284

Allen

Responds have been working with a broad group of partners over the last few years and there would be a lot of interest and cooperation in terms of trying to find those resources.

285

Bob Danko

Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ). Expresses support of the bill. Requests clarification in section 4 on language.

300

Dianne Lancaster

DAS. Testifies in support of SB 867. States position. Supports cooperative procurement effort with other states. Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT M).

360

Stacey Oller

Business Services Manager, state Property Distribution Center. Testifies in support of SB 867. Claims are developing interim policy to make state agencies more responsible with identifying what computer equipment is within working condition and non working condition making sure it is disposed of in an accountable manner. Adds working closely with DEQ to design a policy accountable and reasonable for state agencies.  

370

Sen. Walker

Refers to concerns Mr. Craven had with section 5. Comments on what a great job done in the department and if it can be continued.

385

Lancaster

Expresses appreciation will continue with the good work.

400

Sen. Minnis

Asks how many computers Oregon purchases every year.

420

Oller

Comments do not have purchasing information. Claims ten pallets of miscellaneous equipment will come through the warehouse every month.

423

Sen. Minnis

Asks how many computers on a pallet.

425

Oller

Responds it varies between fifteen to thirty monitors or combination of CPU’s and monitors. Comments they are not always received in complete units. Points out when in working condition they are put on- line for competitive auction and nationwide customer base.

430

Sen. Minnis

Asks if disposals are done for Oregon University System.

434

Oller

Responds yes.

TAPE 40, A

005

Sen. Minnis

Asks in regards to public schools and computers if a bunch of computers are sold and functional.  

015

Oller

Responds yes. Cites the regulations and law they are ruled by. Claims needing to provide priority to common educational school districts computer equipment and that it be transferred. Transferred with no charge. States the process.

025

Sen. Minnis

Asks if it has to be purchased.

027

Oller

Responds no because per statute it is transferred at no charge. Claims there is a state screener who school districts will contact and state their need. Discusses the transfer process.

033

Sen. Minnis

Asks if the systems are on the ten or fifteen pallets or are they separated out.

035

Oller

Responds they can be separated out.

037

Sen. Minnis

Asks how many computers are going to schools.

039

Oller

Responds does not know but can get the information.

042

Chair Corcoran

Closes the public hearing on SB 867 and adjourns the meeting at 5:00 PM.

The following prepared testimony is submitted for the record without public testimony for SB 867:

                      Heather Bowman         Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT N)

                      Seth Karpinski             Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT O)

                      Julie Daniel                   Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT P)

                      Am. Electronic Assn.   Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT Q)

                      David Bragdon             Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT R)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A – SB 717, -1 amendments dated 4/4/03, staff, 3 pp

B – SB 717, written testimony, Cathy Pollino,, 1 p

C – SB 867, written testimony, Jackie Dingfelder, 3 pp

D – SB 867, written testimony, Steven McGeady, 2 pp

E – SB 867, written testimony, Wayne Rifer, 2 pp

F – SB 258, -2 amendments dated 4/9/03, staff, 1 p

G – SB 325, -3 amendments dated 4/8/03, staff, 2 pp

H – SB 325, -4 amendments dated 4/9/03, John Powell, 1 p

I – SB 867, written testimony, Lori Stole, 1 p

J – SB 867, written testimony, Oso Martin, 1 p

K – SB 867, written testimony, Doug Myers, 1 p

L – SB 867, written testimony, Greg Sampson, 3 pp

M – SB 867, written testimony, Dianne Lancaster, 2 pp

N – SB 867, written testimony, Heather Bowman, 3 pp

O – SB 867, written testimony, Seth Karpinski, 2 pp

P – SB 867, written testimony, Julie Daniel, 2 pp

Q – SB 867, written testimony, submitted by Frank Marella for American Electronics Association, 1 p

R – SB 867, written testimony, David Bragdon, 2 pp