June 30, 2003                                                                                                         Hearing Room C

3:00 PM                                                                                                                                 Tape 66


MEMBERS PRESENT:         Sen. Tony Corcoran, Chair

Sen. John Minnis, Vice-Chair

Sen. Bruce Starr

Sen. Vicki Walker      


STAFF PRESENT:                 Mark Ellsworth, Committee Administrator

Heather Gravelle, Committee Assistant


MEASURE/ISSUES HEARD:  HB 2020 A – Work Session


These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.





TAPE 66, A



Chair Corcoran

Calls the meeting to order at 3:05 PM. Opens a work session on HB 2020 A.



Chair Corcoran

States the -20 amendments have been adopted although PERS wanted to make changes not enough to warrant drafting and delaying the bill any further. Addresses concerns with -20 amendments. Commends PERS Committee and Representative Knopp on their hard work  with repairing current system with 2003-2004.  Presents –A20 amendments dated 6/26/03. (EXHIBIT A).


Chair Corcoran

Claims there are two options on the table currently. States the question now is hybrid plan or tier 2. Notes the plan is a compromise plan signed by people in the building. Points out Representative Knopp sent a letter to the Governor that stated he respectively declines to concur as written raising six issues:

  • 6% pick up of employees by employers. Says the 6% is wages. Explains the alternatives.
  • Benefit issue.  
  • Cost of living adjustments with maximum 2% cost of living increase.
  • Explains disability benefits which are less costly.
  • Legislators not being part of PERS.
  • Option for new hires to choose defined contribution or hybrid.


Chair Corcoran

Notes this is a compromise where not everyone agrees with it, but it is fair. Claims false option to go back to tier 2 with cost drivers as opposed to going with the hybrid plan. 


Sen. Minnis

Comments he supports the motion to move. Disagrees with Chair Corcoran whether it’s defined contribution or defined benefit. Feel it is unfortunate not holding on longer to find common ground. Believes Representative Knopp’s issues are valid and merit some discussion.


Sen. Minnis

MOTION:  Moves HB 2020 A to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.


Sen. Starr

Claims to oppose the motion. Supports 401 K style defined contribution successor plan. Appreciates the work that Chair Corcoran has put into the bill and everyone who worked on it. Notes being financially better off as a state with 2020 rather than tier 2. Adds a defined contribution with some minor tweaks would have still been better.


Sen. Walker

Expresses frustration with paragraph three in Representative Knopp’s letter. Quotes sections of the letter. Feels it is not just a Senate Democrat plan being there has been input from both sides with Representative Knopp involved in discussions early on. Expresses concern this has become a partisan issue when it is not. Expresses interest in tier 2 plan. Claims it is clear money has been saved under the 2020 plan. Asks if the House Republicans have been involved in negotiations in the Senate.  


Chair Corcoran

Responds they have not been directly involved and the process has been ran transparently. Claims a process was used to get changes to the current plan, mortality tables and changes in PERS Board. The interested parties were there. Feels it is unfair to go back and re-negotiate Notes painful process getting to a certain spot where everyone had to give and did not get what they wanted completely. Adds there are parties on both sides who are off the plan so something must have been done right.


Sen. Walker

Agrees. Notes the plan started in the House and came to the Senate and the good work they started was finished. Claims issues that have been successfully addressed in Representative Knopp’s letter.



VOTE:  3-1

AYE:            3 - Sen. Walker, Sen. Minnis, Chair Corcoran

NAY:            1 - Sen. Starr


Chair Corcoran

The motion Carries.

SEN. MINNIS & CHAIR CORCORAN will lead discussion on the floor.


Chair Corcoran

Closes the work session on HB 2020 A and adjourns the meeting at 3:40 PM.

The following prepared testimony submitted for the record without public testimony for HB 2020 A:

                               Margaret Hallock    Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT B)

                               Mark Johnson          Submits written material (EXHIBIT C)

                               Unknown                  Submits written material (EXHIBIT D)





A – HB 2020 A, -A20 amendments dated 6/26/03, staff, 98 pp

B – HB 2020 A, written testimony, Margaret Hallock, 3 pp

C – HB 2020 A, written material regarding cost rate, Mark Johnson, 1 p

D – HB 2020 A, written material regarding hybrid plan, unknown, 6 pp *