WORK SESSION: HB 2152

 

TAPES 169, A

 

SENATE REVENUE COMMITTEE

August 18, 2003   11:15 AM   STATE CAPITOL BUILDING

 

Members Present:                        Senator Ryan Deckert, Chair

                                                Senator Ted Ferrioli, Vice Chair

                                                Senator Tony Corcoran

                                                Senator Rick Metsger

                                                Senator David Nelson

                                                Senator Charlie Ringo

                                                Senator Bruce Starr

 

Members Excused:                      Senator Lenn Hannon

 

Witnesses Present:                        Dexter Johnson, Legislative Counsel                       

 

Staff Present:                            Paul Warner, Legislative Revenue Office

                                                Dick Yates, Legislative Revenue Office

                                                Tara Lantz, Committee Assistant

 

TAPE 169, SIDE A

 

003

Chair Deckert

Calls meeting to order at 11:30 am.

 

 

 

005

Sen. Deckert

States that they will come back to a public hearing and work session at 2:00 pm, once the amendments are ready.

 

OPENS WORK SESSION ON HB 2152

 

013

Paul Warner

Discusses the major changes made in the -19 amendments which creates a temporary personal income tax increase and increases the corporate income tax. Refer to Revenue Proposal (Exhibit 1). Briefly discusses all of the components.

 

 

 

086

Sen. Corcoran

Asks if they will discuss all of the provisions once they have the bill and not just the ones that are in the -19 amendments.

 

 

 

090

Warner

States that many of the other components will go through the Ways and Means Committee. Continues discussion of the average impacts from the temporary graduated income tax assessment and the estimate from the proposed increase in the corporate minimum tax.

 

 

 

164

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks if the income tax surcharge proposal has been heard in the House.

 

 

 

170

Warner

Responds that the House has heard HB 2152 which is relating to taxation and required 3/5 majority vote but that they have not heard the -19 amendments.

 

 

 

180

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks how this follows with the Legislative rule that revenue raising measures must originate in the House.

 

 

 

189

Sen. Deckert

Responds that the advice given from Counsel is that since HB 2152 passed through the House and has a relating to taxation clause, it is legal for them to add an amendment that is also relating to taxation.

 

 

 

195

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks what a rebuttable conclusion is.

 

 

 

200

Sen. Ringo

Responds that a rebuttable presumption is a presumption that can be rebutted.

 

Discussion follows.

 

 

 

210

Sen. Ferrioli

States that a $21.2 billion revenue raising package is not an amendment that should be added to a House bill that originated as a cigarette tax extension. 

 

 

 

219

Sen. Nelson

Asks about a provider tax for hospitals.

 

 

 

221

Warner

Responds that there has been amendments drafted but they are not in the -19 amendments.

 

 

 

225

Sen. Ringo

States that it is his preference that they hear the substance of the bill rather than what may or may not be legal about it.

 

 

 

234

Sen. Ferrioli

States that it is not his intention to stop the proceedings today but that they are at least informed about the logic and legality of the bill.

 

 

 

249

Sen. Starr

Asks if the SUV depreciation portion adds back both the state and federal deduction.

 

 

 

255

Warner

Responds that only the state portion will be added back.

 

 

 

263

Dick Yates

Responds that this bill does not have a 3 times deduction.

 

 

 

282

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks about the mechanism for bringing the bill as an amendment to HB 2152.

 

 

 

297

Dexter Johnson

Responds that HB 2152 originated in the House and was a bill for raising revenue in the House. States that it satisfies the requirements under any other states interpretation.

 

 

 

328

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks if he is absolutely certain this will survive against a legal challenge.

 

 

 

335

Johnson

Responds that it would be a change of a 100 plus year precedent if it did not.

 

 

 

350

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks to what degree of certainty Johnson believes this will withstand a legal challenge.

 

 

 

368

Johnson

Responds that he is convinced that it would survive a legal challenge, and points out that the House chose to relate the bill to taxation and not the extension of a sunset date.

 

 

 

376

Sen. Ferrioli

States that he believes the courts will find that they cannot finesse the Constitution.

 

 

 

379

Sen. Ringo

Asks how long Johnson has been working in Counsel.

 

 

 

380

Johnson

Responds since 1994.

 

 

 

382

Sen. Ringo

Asks if amendments happen like this all the time.

 

 

 

385

Johnson

Responds affirmatively.

 

Discussion follows.

 

 

 

399

Sen. Nelson

Asks if there is a difference between the terms surcharge and assessment.  

 

 

 

404

Johnson

Responds that there is not a legal definition between the two and that there are other ways to describe it.

 

 

 

410

Warner

Responds that there is an economic definition of a surcharge that is a percentage of a fixed percentage of tax liability and that this is a variation.

 

425

Sen. Deckert

Adjourns meeting at 11:58 pm.

 

 

 

Tape Log Submitted by,

 

 

 

Tara Lantz, Committee Assistant

 

Exhibit Summary:

  1. HB 2152, Paul Warner, Revenue Proposal, 3pp.