SENATE COMMITTEE ON WATER AND LAND USE

 

April 30, 2003                                                                                                         Hearing Room D

3:00 p.m.                                                                                                                      Tapes 59 – 62           

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:         Sen. Ted Ferrioli, Chair

Sen. Charlie Ringo, Vice-Chair

Sen. Jason Atkinson

Sen. Rick Metsger

 

STAFF PRESENT:                 Judith Callens, Committee Administrator

Megan Jensen, Committee Assistant

 

MEASURE/ISSUES HEARD:           HB 820 Public Hearing and Work Session

HB 2689 Public Hearing

                                                SB 293 Public Hearing

HB 836 Public Hearing

HB 418 Public Hearing

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 59, A

003

Chair Ferrioli

Calls meeting to order at 3:18 p.m. and opens public hearing on SB 820.

SB 820 – PUBLIC HEARING

010

Sen. David Nelson

District 29 State Senator. Provides testimony in support of SB 820 and -5 amendments dated 4/30/03 (EXHIBIT A). States that the Columbia River should be protected but also provide for economic development uses.

025

Sen. Ringo

Asks for the main points of the -5 amendments.

030

Sen. Nelson

Explains that -5 amendments:

·         Request a 250,000 acre feet reservation of water

·         Create a temporary ten year reservation

·         Create a task force to study the effects on interstate compacts, the Endangered Species Act (ESA) and effects on the state

038

Sen. Ringo

Inquires if the work group included WaterWatch and other environmental groups.

040

Sen. Nelson

Affirms and lists organizations involved in the work group.

055

Martha Pagel

Schwabe Williamson and Wyatt. Provides information on the work group and refers to submitted written materials (EXHIBITS B AND C).

088

Sen. Ringo

Asks about reserving 250,000 acre feet of Columbia River water.

092

Pagel

Explains that the Columbia River main stem is not part of the reservation and will be withdrawn from future appropriation.

096

Sen. Ringo

Inquires if there could be withdrawals from the Columbia River without legislative approval.

098

Pagel

Affirms and explains the process for requesting a withdrawal.

102

Sen. Ringo

Asks about the origin of the 250,000 acre feet figure.

103

Pagel

Explains it is a rough estimate of what might be a reasonable amount.

112

Sen. Ringo

Wonders if the majority of the water will be used for agricultural purposes.

114

Pagel

Believes the water would be used for agricultural uses but also for  industrial and municipal development.

120

Sen. Ringo

Inquires about the temporary ten year limit on SB 820.

123

Pagel

Explains the intent is to have a systematic plan for long term water needs.

135

Sen. Ringo

Asks what issues need further deliberation.

139

Pagel

Refers to the four key issues listed on page two of her submitted written testimony.

155

Sen. Ringo

Wonders if amendments are required to address the concerns.

159

Pagel

Believes the -5 amendments address those concerns and elaborates.

176

Sen. Ringo

Clarifies that some concerns could be addressed at a future point.

183

Pagel

Confirms that the -5 amendments address the problems but there are plans to continue working on the bill on the House side.

189

Chair Ferrioli

Discusses the reservation of water as the first key component of the -5 amendments.

199

Pagel

Points out the language in SB 820 that reserves 250,000 acre feet of water.

204

Chair Ferrioli

Discusses the second key provision of protection for instream flows.

206

Pagel

Points out language in the -5 amendment that addresses instream flows.

210

Chair Ferrioli

Asks about the third key provision of comprehensive river management.

212

Pagel

Explains comprehensive river management plans in the -5 amendments.

238

Chair Ferrioli

Talks about the four states that share the Columbia River in different appropriation percentages.

241

Pagel

Replies that those issues can be addressed in an interstate compact.

250

Chair Ferrioli

Discusses the fourth key provision regarding the ESA.

264

Pagel

Explains the process for consulting with agencies regarding how the proposed water withdrawal will affect the ESA.

280

Chair Ferrioli

Points out the requirement for a report to the Legislative Assembly in two years.

285

Sen. Ringo

Asks about the inclusion of the ESA in the -5 amendments.

300

Pagel

Explains how the Water Resources Department (WRD) will consider applications with regards to the ESA.

310

Sen. Ringo

Inquires if the term “this reservation” refers to the 250,000 acre feet and not the 1.42 million acre feet originally requested.

320

Pagel

Affirms.

322

Sen. Ringo

Asks about a fiscal impact.

328

Chair Ferrioli

Comments that there is no fiscal impact statement yet and elaborates.

335

Pagel

Explains the plan is structured for a minimal fiscal impact.

338

Chair Ferrioli

Remarks that SB 820 is a work in progress.

350

Bill Burke

Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Indian Reservation (CTUIR). Provides testimony against SB 820 and refers to submitted written materials (EXHIBIT D).

TAPE 60, A

005

Burke

Continues testimony in opposition to SB 820.

098

Sen. Ringo

Asks if some water could be freed up immediately while the study is taking place.

102

Burke

Believes no water should be made immediately available.

108

Sen. Ringo

Expresses concern regarding the economic downturn and wonders if  some amount of water could be allocated for economic uses in interim.

118

Burke

Reasserts his concern for the well-being of Columbia River salmon.

122

Rick George

CTUIR Water Resources Department (WRD). Talks about WRD’s process for granting a new water right.

134

Chair Ferrioli

Summarizes crucial issues surrounding SB 820. Asks if CTUIR could support the committee moving SB 820 to the House with the understanding that the work group will continue work on the bill.

234

George

Responds that CTUIR would prefer that more time be spent addressing concerns about the impacts to the hydrosystem and instream flows in the Columbia River.

263

Chair Ferrioli

Remarks that there is very little time left in the legislative session to address those concerns adequately and states that those subjects will be included in legislative reports. Talks about three issues that must be addressed before water is ever even appropriated.

300

Adam Sussman

WRD. Provides testimony in support of SB 820 and -5 amendments and refers to submitted written materials (EXHIBIT E). Believes there will be no fiscal impact to the general fund.

312

Sen. Ringo

Inquires how much time WRD requires to assess a fiscal impact.

313

Sussman

Explains the length of time is difficult to estimate.

318

Sen. Ringo

Asks for an estimate of the time necessary to produce a fiscal impact statement.

320

Sussman

Restates he cannot accurately estimate the length of time.

330

Chair Ferrioli

Talks about water right application costs being used to fund WRD work.

336

Sussman

Believes the SB -5 amendments require agencies comply reports of policy coordination issues.

TAPE 59, B

020

Jill Zarnowitz

Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife. Provides testimony on SB 820 and -5 amendments and refers to submitted written materials (EXHIBIT F).

055

Sen. Metsger

Asks about specific concerns with the -5 amendments.

059

Zarnowitz

Explains ODFW is satisfied with the -5 amendments.

064

Sen. Metsger

Asks if ODFW supports the bill with the -5 amendments.

067

Zarnowitz

Explains ODFW is remaining neutral on SB 820.

070

Sen. Ringo

Asks how the water withdrawal will affect the amount of water in the Columbia River.

074

Sussman

Replies that there are pending applications for Columbia River water use and elaborates.

087

Sen. Ringo

Inquires if the pending applications will affect water withdrawals in the next two years.

089

Sussman

Explains that applications waiting for water will go forward regardless of any other water use decisions.

098

Sen. Ringo

Asks if SB 820 will affect people currently in the application process.

100

Sussman

Replies that SB 820 will enhance coordination between agencies and the federal government but it will not allocate water.

105

Sen. Ringo

Reiterates his question regarding whether SB 820 will make it more likely that additional water will be removed from of the Columbia River over the next two years.

109

Chair Ferrioli

Clarifies that it will depend on each water right application.

115

Kimberley Priestley

WaterWatch. Provides testimony in opposition to SB 820 and refers to submitted written materials (EXHIBIT G). States that WaterWatch would accept the proposed water withdrawal if the remaining water is withdrawn from future consumptive appropriation.

185

Sen. Ringo

Asks if WaterWatch would accept SB 820 in its entirety under that assumption.

187

Priestley

Explains that WaterWatch would be comfortable with the water withdrawal if a clause was included allowing for an instream water right. Continues testimony and discusses the reporting requirements.

200

Sen. Ringo

Asks for WaterWatch’s opinion on the 250,000 acre feet reservation request.

203

Priestley

Replies WaterWatch will not accept water withdrawal as long as target flows for healthy fish are not being met.

207

Aubrey Russell

Oregon Trout. Provides testimony in opposition to SB 820 and refers to submitted written materials (EXHIBIT H).

272

Sen. Ringo

Asks for his opinion on the addition of “consumptive” on page three of SB 820.

280

Pagel

Explains that it would allow an instream water right application to be filed but might erase any benefit of the water reservation.

299

Fred Ziari

Eastern Oregon Irrigation Association. Provides testimony in support of SB 820. Believes SB 820 will assist economic recovery in eastern Oregon.

324

Gary Reed

Umatilla County. Submits written testimony in support of SB 820 (EXHIBIT I).

330

Chair Ferrioli

Closes public hearing and opens work session on SB 820.

SB 820 – WORK SESSION

335

Chair Ferrioli

Explains an scrivener’s error in the -5 amendments to be corrected in the House. Clarifies CTUIR is concerned with fish survival and water flow. States those issues must be dealt with on any application for water rights and elaborates.

370

Sen. Ringo

Asks for clarification on the scrivener’s error.

375

Chair Ferrioli

Provides clarification and explains there will be a conference committee when SB 820 moves to the House.

395

Sen. Atkinson

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT SB 820-5 amendments dated 4/30/03.

400

 

VOTE:  4-0

 

Chair Ferrioli

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

406

Sen. Metsger

Summarizes issues surrounding SB 820.

TAPE 60, B

023

Sen. Ringo

Offers supports for SB 820 but comments on the arbitrary nature of the 250,000 acre feet reservation.

039

Sen. Atkinson

MOTION:  Moves SB 820 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

043

 

VOTE:  4-0

AYE:            In a roll call vote, all members present vote Aye.

 

Chair Ferrioli

The motion CARRIES.

SEN. NELSON will lead discussion on the floor.

Directs staff to create an amendment regarding demonstrable progress and charges the work group to continue working on SB 820. Closes work session on SB 820 and opens public hearing on HB 2689.

HB 2689 – PUBLIC HEARING

062

Rep. Tootie Smith

District 18 State Representative. Provides testimony in support of HB 2689 and refers to submitted written testimony (EXHIBIT L).

125

Chair Ferrioli

Asks if the -4 amendments are under consideration.

128

Rep. T. Smith

Replies that the -5 amendments are under consideration because there was a drafting error in the -4 amendments.

180

Sandy Flicker

Oregon Rural Electric Cooperative Association. Provides testimony in support of HB 2689 and refers to submitted written testimony (EXHIBIT M).

230

Harlan Levy

Oregon Association of Realtors. Provides testimony in support of HB 2689 and -5 amendments and refers to submitted written testimony (EXHIBIT N and EXHIBIT O).

275

Sen. Ringo

Asks for his opinion on the -4 amendments.

278

Levy

Replies that some aspects of the -4 amendments are not acceptable.

281

Sen. Ringo

Believes there should be discussion on both the -4 and -5 amendments.

290

Chair Ferrioli

States there will be a presentation of the HB -4 amendments.

294

Don Schellenberg

Oregon Farm Bureau. States support for HB 2689 and -4 amendments.

324

Art Kegler

Morrow County. Provides testimony in support of HB 2689. Discusses the economic benefits of a new raceway in Morrow County.

TAPE 61, A

008

Sen. Ringo

Asks about the particular land use rules that impeded the establishment of a raceway.

015

Kegler

Explains that commercial businesses were not allowed outside the urban growth boundary (UGB).

019

Sen. Ringo

Inquires if the raceway itself was considered a commercial business.

021

Kegler

Replies that the amenities associated with the raceway were considered commercial development.

025

Sen. Ringo

Asks who made the decision that impacted the establishment of the raceway.

026

Kegler

Responds that the Department of Land Conservation and Development made the decision.

029

Chair Ferrioli

Explains that the commercial development related to the raceway was disallowed.

032

Kegler

Reiterates that the decision was made because the proposed location was outside the UGB. Explains that HB 2689 would not allow “mall sprawl.”

040

Sen. Ringo

Asks if HB 2689 would resurrect the racetrack proposal.

043

Kegler

Affirms and elaborates. Discusses the -4 amendments and believes the size limitation of 40,000 square feet is unreasonable.

068

Sen. Ringo

Asks for his recommendation on a size limit.

069

Kegler

Replies that he is unsure of an appropriate size limit.

075

Sen. Ringo

Asks if the -4 amendments would adequately address the problem if the size limit is removed.

077

Kegler

Affirms.

090

Chair Ferrioli

Discusses the difference between urban commercial and rural commercial zoning.

100

Kegler

Clarifies the difference between urban commercial and rural commercial zoning.

106

Don Saari

Central Oregon Coast Board of Realtors. Provides testimony in support of HB 2689 and refers to submitted written testimony (EXHIBIT P). Discusses the background of HB 2689.

200

Saari

Continues testimony in support of HB 2689. Expresses support for the HB 2689-5 amendments and expresses concern regarding the -4 amendments.

260

Bob Rindy

Department of Land Conservation and Development. Provides testimony in support of HB 2689 and -4 amendments. Discusses economic development on rural industrial lands.

370

Sen. Metsger

Asks about building size limitations.

375

Rindy

Explains that the basic premise of land use planning is to limit sprawl and keep costs down.

TAPE 62, A

011

Chair Ferrioli

Asks about rural commercial uses.

018

Rindy

Offers to research the issue.

028

Jay Waldron

Glenwood Auto Parts. Provides testimony in support of HB 2689 and refers to submitted written testimony (EXHIBIT Q). Asserts that HB 2689 will assist small and medium business owners in Oregon.

118

Chair Ferrioli

Asks if he has read the -5 amendments.

119

Waldron

Responds he has not read the -5 amendments.

125

Chair Ferrioli

Asks if there is a retail component to his business.

128

Waldron

Affirms.

130

Chair Ferrioli

Requests he study the -4 and -5 amendments.

140

Sen. Ringo

Inquires how he researched whether the land could be used for his business.

142

Waldron

Explains he worked with the land use planner in Lane County.

150

Sen. Ringo

Inquires how much time he spent working with the planner.

152

Waldron

Responds he spent approximately half an hour working with the land use planner.

165

Sen. Metsger

Inquires if his business use was deemed industrial use.

168

Waldron

Affirms.

172

Sen. Metsger

Clarifies that what prevented him from establishing his business was the imposition of the 7500 square foot building size limitation.

175

Waldron

Affirms and elaborates on the new rule that went into effect during the process of acquiring his business site.

178

Sen. Metsger

Asks for clarification on the new rule.

193

Waldron

Responds the building size limit changed and new ownership regulations went into effect.

197

Chair Ferrioli

Closes public hearing on HB 2689 and opens work session on SB 293.

SB 293 – WORK SESSION

200

Dick Stradley

Sherman County Assessor. Explains he is neutral on the issues of SB 293. Discusses the -6 amendments and expresses concern about administrative costs that might be imposed on assessors.   

245

Chair Ferrioli

Asks who is the owner of record on the river banks.

252

Stradley

Believes the deeds show that property is owned to the center line of the river.

254

Chair Ferrioli

Asks if the river bed is included in tax assessments.

257

Stradley

Affirms.

259

Chair Ferrioli

Confirms that property owners own the river beds.

263

Donald Cossitt

Wheeler County Assessor. States that the John Day River is taxed to the center line of the river.

270

Chair Ferrioli

Asks if tax payers would have the right to recover payment of taxes back to five years if the river was declared navigable.

273

Cossitt

Affirms that tax payers could recover payments back to five years if it was deemed a clerical error.

276

Chair Ferrioli

States that changes in the method of assessment would have to take place if the -6 amendments were adopted.

283

Cossitt

States that the John Day runs through exclusive farm zones and explains the process for adjustments to the taxable value.

293

Chair Ferrioli

Inquires about mapping processes.

293

Cossitt

Explains different mapping processes.

298

Chair Ferrioli

Remarks that mapping processes would be a burden on counties and the Department of Revenue. Asks about cost estimates.

301

Cossitt

Responds that there is no cost estimate.

303

Chair Ferrioli

Clarifies that property values are assessed to the center line of the river and the property is taxed.

315

Pat Shaw

Gillam County Assessor. Expresses concern about exempting property up to the high water mark because the administrative process will be burdensome to counties.

340

Chair Ferrioli

Asks for an explanation of meander surveys of river banks.

345

Scott Jackson

Department of Revenue Cartographer. Explains meander surveys and states the John Day has not had a meander survey.

361

Chair Ferrioli

Clarifies that he would have to do a meander survey from the headwaters of the John Day River before he could declare the high water line and declare assessable property values.

365

Jackson

Affirms and elaborates.

367

Chair Ferrioli

Asks who would pay for the survey.

368

Jackson

Replies that the Department of Revenue and counties would share the costs.

370

Chair Ferrioli

Asks about the tax base in Wheeler County.

372

Cossitt

Believes the tax base is around $80 million.

373

Chair Ferrioli

Asks if Wheeler County is over 98% on tax deferral.

375

Cossitt

Responds that about 98.4% is either exempt or deferred currently.

377

Chair Ferrioli

Asks for the annual revenue from that value.

379

Cossitt

States the levy for the entire county is $487,597.

381

Chair Ferrioli

Asks what a meander survey would cost.

410

Jackson

Believes a meander survey would be expensive.

415

Cossitt

Comments on the cost and length of time for a meander survey.

424

Chair Ferrioli

Elaborates on the complications of a meander survey.

TAPE 61, B

025

Sen. Metsger

Asks if the recovery of taxes back five years for errors or omissions would be applicable under SB 293 or the declaration of navigability.

035

Chair Ferrioli

States that the potential liability would come from the error of assessing land that is not owned by the land owner.

040

Stradley

Affirms and elaborates on exemptions.

046

Sen. Metsger

Talks about the process of determining what property is not taxable.

055

Stradley

Affirms.

058

Sen. Metsger

Talks about property owners on the Sandy River.

070

Cossitt

Explains the process in Wheeler County.

100

Sen. Metsger

Remarks that the state must reimburse a county for the costs involved with taking property.

107

Jackson

Clarifies that there is no money in the account the state would use to reimburse counties.

115

Chair Ferrioli

Asks about the effect on the total value of the land if the property to the center line of the river is lost.

122

Stradley

Explains that the land has relatively little value.

133

Chair Ferrioli

Believes the Sandy River property has a higher value and talks about assessments on the Sandy River.

151

Jackson

Offers to research the issue.

165

Bill Koran

West Linn. Provides testimony in opposition to SB 293 and refers to submitted written testimony (EXHIBIT R).

288

John Garren

National Organization for Rivers (NORS). Provides testimony in opposition to SB 293 and refers to submitted written testimony (EXHIBIT S). Believes the state does not have the resources of staff and funding for development of a river recreation management plan that would duplicate a federal plan already in place.

365

Chair Ferrioli

Asks if he would like the federal John Day River management plan submitted for the record.

369

Garren

Replies that the federal management plans are available through the Bureau of Land Management in Prineville.

378

Sen. Ringo

Comments that there has been no reference to the federal management plan for the John Day River in the public hearings.

380

Garren

Talks about the federal management plan as it relates to the John Day River.

TAPE 62, B

008

Garren

Continues discussion of facilities on the John Day River and the federal management plan.

020

Chair Ferrioli

Closes work session on SB 293. Discusses management plan issues.  Opens public hearing on SB 836.

SB 836 – PUBLIC HEARING

050

Steve Purchase

Division of State Lands Assistant Director. Reports the progress of SB 836.

080

Chair Ferrioli

Closes public hearing on SB 836 and opens public hearing on SB 418

SB 418 – PUBLIC HEARING

085

Chair Ferrioli

States that SB 418 amendments will be discussed at a later date (EXHIBIT T). Closes public hearing on SB 418 and adjourns meeting at 6:42 p.m.

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A – SB 820, SB 820-5 amendments dated 4/30/03, staff, 5 pp.

B – SB 820, written testimony, Martha Pagel, 3 pp.

C – SB 820, written testimony, Martha Pagel, 9 pp.

D – SB 820, written testimony, Bill Burke, 4 pp.

E – SB 820, written testimony, Adam Sussman, 3 pp.

F – SB 820, written testimony, Jill Zarnowitz, 3 pp.

G – SB 820, written testimony, Kimberley Priestley, 1 p.

H – SB 820, written testimony, Aubrey Russell, 1 p.

I – SB 820, written testimony, Gary Reed, 2 pp.

J – HB 2689, HB 2689-4 amendments dated 4/30/03, staff, 3 pp.

K – HB 2689, HB 2689-5 amendments dated 4/30/03, staff, 5 pp.

L – HB 2689, written testimony, Rep. Tootie Smith, 2 pp.

M – HB 2689, written testimony, Sandy Flicker, 3 pp.

N – HB 2689, written testimony, Harlan Levy, 12 pp.

O – HB 2689, written testimony, Harlan Levy, 8 pp.

P – HB 2689, written testimony, Don Saari, 4 pp.

Q – HB 2689, written testimony, Jay Waldron, 2 pp.

R – SB 293, written testimony, Bill Koran, 3 pp.

S – SB 293, written testimony, John Garren, 5 pp.

T – SB 293, written testimony, Steve Christensen, 1 p.

U – SB 293, written testimony, Phil McCorkle, 1 p.

V – SB 293, written testimony, Tony Brauner, 56 pp.

W – SB 293, written testimony, Vaden Green, 3 p.

X – SB 293, written testimony, Jim McConnaughey, 1 p.

Y – SB 293, written testimony, Lyell Asher, 1 p.

Z – SB 293, written testimony,  John Richen, 1 p.

AA – SB 293, written testimony, Jason Wells, 1 p.

BB – SB 293, written testimony, Gordon Ferlitch, 1 p.

CC – SB 293, written testimony, Brian O’Leary, 1 p.

DD – SB 293, written testimony, Ephraim Payne, 3 pp.

EE – SB 293, written testimony, Rob Allen, 2 pp.

FF – SB 293, written testimony, Lawrence Edwards, 6 pp.

GG – SB 293, written testimony, Rhett Lawrence, 1 p.

HH – SB 293, written testimony, Tim Grinstead, 1 p.

II – SB 293, written testimony, Keith Slonecker, 2 pp.

JJ – SB 836, written testimony, Bill Sanderson, 1 p.

KK – SB 418, SB 418-1 amendments dated 4/28/03, staff, 1 p.

LL – SB 418, SB 418-2 amendments dated 4/28/03, staff, 27 pp.