TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 66, A

003

Chair Brown

Calls the meeting to order at 8:10 a.m. Opens the work session on HB 2238.

HB 2238 – WORK SESSION

007

Janet Adkins

Committee Administrator.  Explains HB 2238. 

017

Rep. Jerry Krummel

House District 26.  Speaks in support of HB 2238.  States that HB 2238 will help the Oregon Liquor Control Commission and the Lottery Commission to do more procedures online.  Wants HB 2238 to be referred to Ways and Means.  Mentions that there are no amendments from the workgroup.   

048

Rep. Kitts

MOTION:  Moves HB 2238 to the floor with a DO PASS recommendation and BE REFERRED to the committee on Ways and Means by prior reference.

051

VOTE:  7-0-0

AYE:            In a roll call vote, all members present vote Aye.

Chair Brown

The motion CARRIES.

057

Chair Brown

Closes the work session on HB 2238.  Opens the work session on HB 2637.

HB 2637 – WORK SESSION

058

Janet Adkins

Committee Administrator.  Explains HB 2637 and the -1 amendment (EXHIBIT A). 

073

John McCulley

Oregon Association of Mortgage Professionals.  Mentions the requestor of the -1 amendments.   

082

Rep. Kitts

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT HB 2637-1 amendments dated 03/17/05.

084

VOTE:  7-0-0

Chair Brown

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

086

Rep. Kitts

MOTION:  Moves HB 2637 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

088

VOTE:  7-0-0

AYE:            In a roll call vote, all members present vote Aye.

Chair Brown

The motion CARRIES.

092

Rep. Kitts

MOTION:  Moves HB 2637 be placed on the CONSENT CALENDAR.

094

VOTE:  7-0-0

Chair Brown

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

096

Chair Brown

Closes the work session on HB 2637.  Opens the public hearing on HB 2374.

HB 2374 – PUBLIC HEARING

098

Janet Adkins

Committee Administrator.  Explains HB 2374.

112

John Killin

Executive Director, Independent Electrical Contractors of Oregon (IECO).  Submits and reads from written testimony in support of HB 2374 (EXHIBIT B).  Talks about projected worker shortage of electrical contractors.  Wants to create a new ratio for journeymen and apprentices that allows for more apprentices to be trained on the jobsite.  Talks about how this will avert a shortage of electrical journeymen. 

176

Killin

Continues to read from written testimony (EXHIBIT B).  States that it is not unsafe to add more apprentices.  Talks about the wages of apprentices (EXHIBIT B, Page 5).  Notes that IECO has not been able to change the ratio through the Apprenticeship Council.      

221

Jeff Dean

Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC).  Submits written testimony in support of HB 2347 (EXHIBIT C).  Talks about the aging workforce in the construction industry and the possible workforce shortage. 

235

Dan O’Brian

Current Electrical Construction Company.  Submits written testimony in support of HB 2374 (EXHIBIT D).  Mentions the Craft labor Supply Outlook for 2005 to 2015 (EXHIBIT D, Page 3 – 20) and the possible labor shortage.  States that people need to be trained today so that workers will be available in the future. 

265

Chair Brown

Asks if someone said that there will be 17,000 employees who are retiring and if it is all trade employees.

266

Killin

Says that it is in Oregon alone and that the source is the Oregon Employment Department.  States that it is all trade employees and not just electrical trade employees.

272

Chair Brown

Ask if the 185,000 jobs in the construction industry are new jobs or the total number of jobs.

274

Killin

Says that the 185,000 figure is the need for new people in the construction industry per year for the next ten years on a national level.

282

Rep. Kitts

References the statement about no correlation existing between the ratio of apprentices to journeymen and job safety.  Asks where the research was done.

285

Dean

States that they looked at worker’s compensation claims in other states and compared safety rates.

295

Chair Brown

Asks where people come from if the people in Oregon are not trained for the specific trade in which a shortage is occurring.

299

Killin

Says that the workers would come from out of state.

303

Rep. Holvey

Asks if the Apprenticeship Council (AC) goes over the ratios and if it is their prevue to change the apprenticeship ratios.

311

Killin

States that groups have gone to the AC.  Notes that the AC seems unwilling to change the ratios.

323

Rep. Holvey

Asks how work will be done if every journeyman is training an apprentice.

335

O’Brian

Says that the productivity of electricians is estimated by the level the electrician falls under.  Says that in the electrical field many jobs are two people jobs and having an apprenticeship actually helps productivity.

350

Rep. Schaufler

Asks about a situation where a job site has two journeyman and an apprentice and asks which worker will run errands off the jobsite. 

356

O’Brian

Says that a material handler runs errands.

359

Rep. Schaufler

Shares concern that apprentices will be the ones running the errands.

394

Irene Weber

Director of Training and Apprenticeship, Area One Inside Electrical JATC.  Speaks in support of HB 2374.  Says that HB 2374 will create a positive effect in terms of wages.  States that apprentices get a ten percent raise every year. 

TAPE 67, A

001

Weber

Believes that apprentices are not cheap labor because of all the costs involved in training them.  Says that they are looking to employ an extra 100 to 125 people in terms of apprenticeships.  Notes that HB 2374 will help the economy and put money into the economy.

029

Jon Coulimore

Area One Inside Electrical Apprenticeships, JATC.  Speaks in support of HB 2374.  Talks about how the new ratio will help apprentices.  States that he always attempts to stay under ratio.  Believes that HB 2374 will give electricians more flexibility. 

069

Deb Marinos

Chair, Area Two for the JATC. Speaks in support of HB 2374.  Asserts that Oregon needs the best trained electricians working on their electrical systems. 

082

Chair Brown

Asks what a journeyman electrician is paid per hour.

084

Coulimore

Says that they are paid $27.62 per hour, not including benefits. 

091

Chair Brown

Asks if they have difficulty finding journeyman electricians.

093

Coulimore

States that, when the construction industry is experiencing a peak in production, it can be difficult, at times, to find an electrical journeyman.

099

Marinos

Says that a difference exists between those who are well-trained and those who are not well-trained.

101

Rep. Holvey

Asks what the wage and benefit total package for entry level apprentices.

105

Weber

Talks about how those entering the apprenticeship program start at $10.52 an hour.  States that individual contractors determine the benefits.

115

Rep. Holvey

Asks what the average contractor offers as a benefit package.

117

Coulimore

States that most apprentices have medical benefits and a retirement program.  Mentions that the benefits offered to family members vary. 

127

Rep. Holvey

Asks about how much money per apprenticeship JATC spends to move an apprentice into journeyman status.

131

Weber

Says that it cost about $8,000 per apprentice to put the apprentice through the program.

140

Dan Gardner

Commissioner, Bureau of Labor and Industries (BOLI).  Submits and reads written testimony in opposition to HB 2374 (EXHIBIT E).  States that HB 2374 would take away the authority of the Apprenticeship Council (AC).  Talks about how safety is an issue.  Says that HB 2374 ignores collective bargaining issues. 

190

Gardner

Talks about why apprentices may be left on a worksite alone and the dangers that exist.  Says that issues surrounding the worker shortage in the electrical and construction fields have been addressed by the two industries to help reduce the impact.

215

Chair Brown

Asks if the comments made about the electrical trade are applicable to other trades.

218

Gardner

Says that roofers have a one to one ratio and notes the process that the roofers went through to adopt the ratios. 

231

Chair Brown

Asks if BOLI has concerns about filling positions in the trades industry.

232

Gardner

Shares that he is concerned.  Mentions that he is working with Oregon Department of Transportation (ODOT) to work on these issues. 

247

Rep. Kitts

States that he brought up a good point about having at least one journeyman there for supervision of the apprentice.  Asks if they would be in violation of the ratio if only one journeyman and one apprentice was on the site.

258

Gardner

Responds that they would be in violation of the Oregon’s statutes.  Notes that it is a much more dangerous situation if one journeyman is taken away from the jobsite and the ratio of apprentices to journeyman is two to one.  States that BOLI and the Building Codes Division would be liable in those situations.

277

Rep. Kitts

Asks if there is a difference in the fine between having no journeyman on the job site versus having one journeyman on the jobsite.

280

Gardner

Says that no difference in the fine exists.  Talks about situations where journeyman have to leave the jobsite.   

306

Rep. Kitts

Asks what happens when BOLI examines a jobsite and finds that the apprentice to journeyman ratio is too high.

309

Gardner

States that BOLI does verify that a journeyman was pulled away on an emergency and states that they attempt to make sure it is not a common practice.

321

Rep. Schaufler

Shares concerns that the apprentices could work unsupervised and be doing much of the work which does not benefit the consumer.

331

Gardner

States that he has not heard from consumers who share that concern.  Says that businesses do not want injured workers on the job and that they want a good product.

350

Rep. Schaufler

States that, if the ratio is one to one, an apprentice will be on a jobsite alone.

361

Rep. Holvey

Talks about the worker shortage and asks if all contractors belong to JATCs to begin with.

370

Gardner

Talks about how contractors are not required to be a part of JATC.

384

Rep. Holvey

Asks if we should require a commitment for training from contractors.

395

Gardner

States that parts of the industry has been supportive and that some have not been supportive. 

TAPE 66, B

004

Jessica Adamson

Associated General Contractors.  Submits written testimony which takes a neutral stance on HB 2374 (EXHIBIT F).  Talks about the apprenticeship program as a whole. 

020

Dan Graham

Workforce Manager, Associated General Contractors (AGC).  Takes a neutral position on HB 2374.  Mentions who AGC represents and how they support educational programs in the trades.  Talks about HB 3205.  States that they currently have six apprenticeship programs in Oregon.  Notes the difficulties in creating apprenticeship shops in Oregon and how this issue will soon be resolved. 

060

Adamson

Thanks the committee for allowing them to talk about apprenticeship issues.

070

Ken Fry

Journeyman Electrician, NECA-IBEW Electrical Training Center, JATC.  Speaks in opposition to HB 2374.  Talks about how 50 percent of apprenticeship training should occur on the job and 10 percent of the training should be in a classroom.  States that over five years they spend $6,000 per year per apprentice.   Discusses the apprenticeship ratio and says that, for the first year apprentices, no apprenticeship program allows for a one to one ratio.  Says that the JATC is aware of the needs of the industry and is working to meet those needs.  Emphasizes the need for quality and safety.

117

Bob Shiprack

Building Trades Council.  Talks about the future of the construction industry and discusses what happened to apprentices when the economy collapsed in 1980s.  States that apprentices have to be employed to meet the workforce requirements.  Believes that construction workers work for money and the workforce shortage is in part due to employers not paying enough for employees. 

165

Shiprack

Asserts that HB 2374 hurts apprentices and perpetuates cheap labor.  Wonders about how many people complete the electrician programs and states that the goal should be to help people complete the programs.  Says that every statistic from Oregon Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) shows that more workers are injured within the first six months of employment.

201

John Mohlis

Brick Layers Local One.  Speaks in opposition to HB 2374.  States that he does not have specific data on safety but says that common sense would dictate that a one to one ratio would result in more jobsite accidents. 

234

Rep. Schaufler

States that the way he reads HB 2374 would allow any number of ratios for journeyman to apprentices.  Believes that not every contractor is concerned about quality or safety.

251

Rep. Kitts

Concurs that a ten to one ratio of apprentices to journeyman is not safe.  Says that first year apprentices start at $10.52 an hour and asks if they believe that being paid $10.52 qualifies as cheap labor.

271

Shiprack

States that you have to look at the period of long unemployment in the construction industry.  Says that total earnings for the year should be a factor in these calculations.  Believes that there are other factors than just the hourly wage.

286

Rep. Kitts

Believes that $10.52 is 11 cents below the AFL-CIO’s definition of a living wage. 

302

Mohlis

States that a journeyman brick laborer is at 22 an hour and 11 an hour is the apprenticeship wage.  Adds that there is a huge difference in benefits between apprentices and journeyman.  Talks about masonry.  Says that the difference between the money involved in hiring journeymen versus apprentices. 

345

Rep. Schaufler

Says that people in the United States are living in shacks and making less than ten dollars an hour.  Talks about how ten dollars an hour is not an adequate amount to live on.

384

Rep. Shields

Mentions the study in which $10.62 an hour is cited as a living wage by the Northwest Job Study.  Notes that $10.62 is a living wage that allows someone not to have a subsidy and it is for a single person.

394

Shiprack

Says that the reason you have more journeyman to apprentices is because you can move the apprentices around to different journeyman who teach different methods.  States that people will not learn the electrician trade properly under HB 2374.

TAPE 67, B

001

Chair Brown

States that he is glad that they are looking at how to fill jobs.

010

Edward Gladd

United Brotherhood of Carpenters and the Pacific Northwest Regional Council of Carpenters.  Speaks in opposition to HB 2374.  States that HB 2374 would limit apprentices’ exposure to different types of techniques that journeymen use.  States that journeymen do not work year round. 

060

Gladd

Talks about the workforce shortage and believes that the requirement should be that employers are asked to employ apprentices at different levels of development.    

078

Bill Cludding

Western Council of Industrial Workers of Oregon.  Talks about industrial journeymen.  Says that people have been killed at 109 volts and that it is considered to be low voltage.  Urges the committee to move carefully on HB 2374. 

105

Chair Brown

Closes the public hearing on HB 2374.  Opens the public hearing on HB 3440.

HB 3440 – PUBLIC HEARING

115

Janet Adkins

Committee Administrator.  Explains HB 3440.  References that HB 3440 is the same as HB 2463, except that HB 3440 has a different relating cause.  (Please note that a public hearing was held for HB 2463 on February 28, 2005).

128

Rep. Schaufler

Speaks in support of HB 3440.  Submits informational packet about HB 3440 and the -1 amendment (EXHIBIT G).  Mentions whom HB 3440 will help.

154

Tamara Brickman

Legislative Coordinator, Employment Department.  States that HB 3440 will not have a fiscal impact on the Employment Department, because it will have a small impact on the program used to withhold state and federal tax. 

173

Rep. Esquivel

Asks what the maximum amount a person can receive through unemployment benefits is.

175

Brickman

Says that the maximum is $419 a week and the minimum is $98.  Says that it is designed to replace up to 64% of a person’s wages from their base year wages.

187

Chair Brown

Closes the public hearing on HB 3440 and opens the work session on HB 3440.

HB 3440 – WORK SESSION

190

Rep. Schaufler

Asks Chair Brown if he would like to set the maximum amount of income a person can and still not pay taxes on their unemployment insurance benefits.

193

Chair Brown

Says that if the amount is not set by the committee then the recommendation of the committee should be no recommendation.

198

Rep. Kitts

Recommends that the committee postpone the bill to the next committee meeting. 

220

Chair Brown

Postpones the work session on HB 3440 and closes the work session on HB 3440.  Opens the public hearing on HB 2670.

HB 2670 – PUBLIC HEARING

223

Janet Adkins

Committee Administrator.  Explains HB 2670.

244

Paul Romain

Representative, Oregon Petroleum Association.  Speaks in support of HB 2670.  Says that Washington State, Nevada, Idaho, and Colorado collect taxes on petroleum and deduct a collection fee for taxes.  States that there is a charge for using credit cards.  Wants to offset the fee for using credit or debit cards in relation to the collection of taxes by requiring the Oregon state government to pay a collection fee to businesses collect the gas tax. 

295

Romain

Emphasizes that the gas stations are losing two to three percent of their money to collect the taxes for the state.  Says that the industry is losing money as it tries to stay somewhat competitive while keeping up with gas prices. 

342

Jay Goulding

??? Says that what is fair for businesses is fair for the government.  States that everyone is using credit cards when buying gas.  Says that his credit card fees to collect the gas tax in February of 2005 were $1200. 

475

Romain

Asserts that they did not mean to include aviation fuel.  States that they will form a workgroup with the parties affected by HB 2670. 

397

Chair Brown

Asks what the monetary impact will be for the Highway Trust Fund.

399

Romain

Says that the revenue impact will be $15 million to $18 million dollars.

TAPE 68, A

001

Romain

Talks about the collection of the tax and the revenue impact it will have on the state.

009

Rep. Kitts

Asks how much was slated for the Transportation Budget in the 2003 Legislature.

010

Chair Brown

States that it was $2.5 billion.

012

Rep. Schaufler

Asks if there are any constitutional issues with HB 2670. 

019

Romain

Believes that no constitutional issues exist.

022

Rep. Schaufler

Asks what can be done to deal with the energy crisis in Oregon.

025

Romain

States that the Oregon Petroleum Association has started conversations about dealing with the energy crisis.  Mentions that building a refinery in the state of Oregon would lower gas prices.  Talks about storage in the state and creating a petroleum reserve for the state.

056

Rep. Schaufler

Asks if the Oregon Petroleum Association is looking at biofuels.

061

Romain

States that the Oregon Petroleum Association distributes biodiesels and ethanol.  Talks about a draft report coming out in California that says that ethanol puts more pollutants into the air than gasoline.

077

Rep. Gilman

Shares concern about a station that only takes cash and says that they will receive a benefit from HB 2670.

082

Romain

Says the convenience of having HB 2670 apply to everyone outweighs the benefits of just paying those who collect with credit cards.  States that fewer and fewer gas stations only take cash.

096

Goulding

Indicates that 78 percent of all of his customers use credit cards to buy gas. 

100

Rep. Holvey

Asks what prevents the dealers from just raising their prices per gallon instead of trying to get a reimbursement from the tax. 

106

Romain

States that in this competitive environment keeping the profit margins positive is becoming increasingly difficult. 

116

Rep. Kitts

Asks if ATM cards are defined as credit cards.  `

119

Romain

Says that nothing has been defined in HB 2670. 

124

Goulding

States that debit card fees are less the two percent.  Notes that since Oregon is not a self service state few people use their PIN number.

130

Rep. Kitts

Asks about the difference in the percentage charged based on whether or not a customer uses their PIN number when using a debit card.

136

Goulding

States that when the PIN number is not used the fee for using the debit card is 2.5% to 2.75%.

140

Robert Hidley

Director, Oregon Department of Aviation.  Submits written testimony asking aviation fuel to be taken out of HB 2670 (EXHIBIT H).  Talks about the negative revenue impact it would have with the Oregon Department of Aviation.

174

Mike Marsh

Deputy Director, Oregon Department of Transportation (ODOT).  Submits written testimony regarding HB 2670 (EXHIBIT I).  Talks about the fiscal impact on ODOT. 

195

Willie Tiffany

Senior Staff Associate, League of Oregon Cities (EXHIBIT J).  Submits written testimony regarding HB 2670.  Says that any reduction to ODOT’s budget is a concern since a funding gap of currently exists to maintain services.   

210

Art Schlak

Association of Oregon Counties (AOC).  Shares concerns about the reduction in revenue to the Highway Trust Fund.  Talks about the possibility that Oregon will lose funding for transportation on the federal level.      

250

Jessica Harris Adamson

Associated General Contractors.  Speaks in opposition to HB 2670.  Believes that it is a dealer’s decision to use credit cards.  States that the cost recovery will cause more problems in the long run than it will resolve in the short term.

285

Chair Brown

Closes the public hearing on HB 2670 and opens the public hearing on 2056.

HB 2056 – PUBLIC HEARING

295

Janet Adkins

Committee Administrator.  Explains HB 2056 and the -2 amendments (EXHIBIT K).

317

Jon Stubenvoll

Communications Director, Oregon Liquor Control Commission (OLCC).  Submits and reads from written testimony in support of HB 2056 (EXHIBIT L).     

406

Rep. Kitts

Asks why the $400 dollar fee was chosen. 

414

Stubenvoll

Talks about the 2003 Legislative Session and how discussion has been going on since this time.  Says that the $400 fee helps meet staffing needs.

TAPE 69, A

001

Stubenvoll

Talks about how budget cuts have lengthened the amount of time it takes OLCC to issue liquor licenses.  Wants to be able to process the applications in a timely manner and the fee will help the OLCC process the applications faster.

006

Rep. Kitts

Asks how many staff will be added and how many restaurants this fee will affect.

012

Stubenvoll

Says that it will affect 1200 to 1500 new applicants annually.  States that it would add 6 FTE employees. 

020

Rep. Kitts

Asks what the starting range is.

022

Stubenvoll

Says that 4 of the FTE would be Liquor License Investigators and are salary range 24 to start at step two.  States that one of the six would be a manager position at the C level which is salary range 28 starting at step two and a secretary at salary range 15.

031

Rep. Schaufler

Asks if the OLCC have had a conversation with the industry.

035

Stubenvoll

States that the parties to the discussion are in agreement to the numbers in HB 2056.

037

Rep. Esquivel

Asks if when the issue was first discussed it was two FTEs.

039

Stubenvoll

States that it was a different bill.

051

Bill Perry

Oregon Restaurant Association (ORA).  Submits informational packet in support of HB 2056 (EXHIBIT M).  States that the biggest issue for the ORA is the temporary license and explains why it is important.  Says that the $400 fee only applies to new businesses.  Talks about the -2 amendments (EXHIBIT K).  Talks about the case that was brought against the Time, Place and Manner Ordinance in Portland (EXHIBIT M). 

094

Rep. Kitts

Shares concern that the fee is too high.  Asks if the $400 fee is set in stone. 

123

Perry

Believes that it is up to Ways and Means Committee to come up with an adequate amount for the fee.

138

Rep. Schaufler

States that there are many more calculations involved than just the salary and hopes that we can get a good number.

150

Bill Linden

Seven-Eleven.  Speaks in support of HB 2056.  States that the goal is to make sure we have a licensing program that is efficient.  Talks about the -2 amendments and states that they are an important piece for the local governments (EXHIBIT K).  Talks about the Time, Place and Manner Ordinance in Portland (EXHIBIT M).  Says that clarification of the Time, Place and Manner Ordinance is crucial to avoiding future litigation.  Talks about how the ordinance in Portland extends to patrons that are no longer in the establishment. 

203

Linden

States that extending the ordinance to the behavior of patrons after they have left the establishment is unenforceable and not needed.  Talks about how business owners should not be held responsible for their patrons’ actions after they have left the premises.

213

Ben Walters

Attorney, City of Portland.  States that the city has difficulty with the terms being extended to two years because it makes it difficult for neighbors’ complaints to be heard.  Says that the state fee will double.  Says that the revenues will be reduced by approximately $35,000 a year to the city.  Mentions the Time, Place, and Manner Ordinance amendment in relation to the -2 amendment and how it was claimed that it preempted the state. 

263

Walters

Continues to speak about the city’s authority in relation to the Time, Place, and Manner Ordinance.  Talks about how the judge’s ruling on the case upheld the City of Portland’s authority to administer the ordinance except for the portion that related to the Responsible Neighbor Program.  Wants to know what affect it will have on the ability of the city to regulate certain off premise exhibits. 

318

Walters

Continues to talk about the recourse the city cannot have if HB 2056 and the -2 amendments become Oregon Statutes.

330

Rep. Schaufler

Questions whether the couple with the newborn really had no recourse in relation to the “drunken brawlers”. 

348

Walters

Talks about the couple with a new born and clarifies what happened when the couple was woken up by people outside of a nearby bar. 

364

Rep. Esquivel

States that the police should confront drunken individuals on the street.

362

Rep. Kitts

Says that regulations and fees do not help business in Multnomah County.    

387

Rep. Esquivel

Says that some municipalities hear complaints for free.  Asks if anyone can file a complaint with the OLCC. 

406

Walters

States that people can file a complaint with the OLCC and says that many people felt that their complaints were not being taken seriously.

410

Rep. Esquivel

States that the problems in Portland seem to be due to the lack of response by the Portland Police Department. 

415

Rep. Kitts

Asserts that he appreciates Mr. Walter’s concerns and shares concerns about the fees involved.

422

Rep. Esquivel

Closes the public hearing on HB 2056 and adjourns the meeting at 11:07 a.m.