SENATE COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT & LAND USE

 

January 26, 2005                                                                                                     Hearing Room B

3:00 P.M.                                                                                                                      Tapes  8 – 10

Corrected 10/18/05

MEMBERS PRESENT:         Sen. Charlie Ringo, Chair

Sen.  Jason Atkinson, Vice-Chair

Sen. Roger Beyer

Sen. Ginny Burdick

Sen. Frank Shields

 

STAFF PRESENT:                 Matt Shields, Committee Administrator

Katie Lowry, Committee Assistant

 

MEASURES/ISSUES HEARD:        

SB 353 – Public Hearing

Introduction of Committee Measures – Work Session

SB 348 – Public Hearing

SB 349 – Public Hearing

                                                Measure 37: Secondary Lands – Public Hearing

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 8, A

005

Chair Ringo

Calls meeting to order at 3:06 p.m. Makes opening remarks. Opens public hearing on SB 353.

SB 353 - PUBLIC HEARING

015

Harlan Levy

Senior Staff Attorney, Oregon Association of Realtors. Submits and highlights written testimony in support of SB 353 (EXHIBIT A).

060

Chair Ringo

Asks if the language in bill is intended to notify a potential buyer about the potential use of the land or the potential use of the neighboring land.

065

Levy

Explains that this bill is designed to inform potential buyer about both.

070

Chair Ringo

Asks for a hypothetical scenario of how this bill would put people on notice.

075

Levy

Gives a hypothetical scenario.

080

Carrie MacLaren

Staff Attorney, 1000 Friends of Oregon. Makes opening comments regarding the concepts of this bill. Discusses prospective buyers and how Measure 37 affects ability to anticipate predictability of zoning. States support for concept, but indicates there are technical problems with bill.

110

Chair Ringo

Clarifies that there couldn’t be a Measure 37 claim with a new purchaser.

115

MacLaren

Believes that the ability to remove, modify or not apply a land use regulation is tied to land use regulations enacted prior to date of acquisition. Articulates intent of the bill and states that the language is not clear.

130

Sen. Beyer

Asks for suggested language.

135

MacLaren

Reads recommended language for bill.

155

Levy

States no opposition to changing the language of the bill in order to get the bill as accurate as possible.

165

Sen. Beyer

Asks if Levy is attorney.

166

Levy

Confirms that he is.

170

Sen. Beyer

States concern that there are attorneys drafting this language for non-attorney people. Cautions that it needs to be done clearly.

180

Sen. Burdick

Explains that more specificity is necessary.

190

Lane Shetterly

Director, Department of Land Conservation and Development; Governor’s Coordinator for Measure 37.  Addresses Sen. Beyer’s concern about language. Discusses the clarity of language and makes recommendations for specific language changes.

215

Chair Ringo

Asks witnesses to bring SB 353 back before the committee.

220

Chair Ringo

Closes public hearing on SB 353 and opens work session on introduction of committee measures.

INTRODUCTION OF COMMITTEE MEASURES – WORK SESSION

225

Matt Shields

Committee Administrator. Gives summary of Legislative Counsel (LC) Drafts:

·         LC 265 (EXHIBIT B) which converts Land Use Board of Appeals into Land Use Court of Appeals.

·         LC 1449 (EXHIBIT C) which clarifies exceptions to exclusive jurisdiction of Land Use Board of Appeals to review land use decisions and limited land use decisions.

230

Sen. Atkinson

MOTION:  Moves LC's:  265, 1449 BE INTRODUCED as committee bills.

235

 

VOTE:  5-0-0

 

Chair Ringo

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

NOTE:

LC 265 printed as SB 432

LC 1449 printed as SB 431

240

Chair Ringo

Closes work session and opens public hearing on SB 348 and 349.

SB 348 and SB 349 – PUBLIC HEARING

245

Dave Hunnicutt

Executive Director, Oregonians in Action. Makes opening remarks. Explains bills and confirms that Dorothy English will be able to subdivide her land if these bills are passed. Asks committee to pass bills.

290

Chair Ringo

Clarifies difference between SB 348 and SB 349. Asks for clarification on number of parcels.

295

Joe Willis

Attorney, Schwabe, Williamson & Wyatt. Gives explanation about number of parcels.

305

Sen. Burdick

Wonders why this bill is necessary since Measure 37 was passed.

310

Willis

Discusses Multnomah County’s response to Dorothy English’s claim.

340

Sen. Burdick

States that the problem is that there is uncertainty about what Measure 37 does or doesn’t do. Asserts that a problem with the ordinance is a problem with the ordinance.

355

Chair Ringo

States that a lot of people think that Measure 37 does not allow people to subdivide. Wonders if there will be litigation if the legislature does not do something.

360

Willis

Believes that Multnomah County wants to do this. Asserts that the language in Measure 37 does allow one to subdivide.

365

Chair Ringo

Explains the difficulty of understanding the legal uncertainties surrounding Measure 37.

380

Willis

Addresses Multnomah County’s ordinance.

390

Chair Ringo

Addresses Hunnicutt. Asks if these bills are a reasonable thing to do to help Dorothy English.

395

Hunnicutt

Discusses the provision in Measure 37 for a person to refer to the judiciary process to resolve disputes. Expresses that Mrs. English does not have a lot of time to wait.

420

Mike McArthur

Executive Director, Association of Oregon Counties (AOC). Explains that in the land use system the state defines the broad policy that is implemented by the county. Sees these bills as a way of the state making specific decisions in the local government. Urges committee to think it through before supporting this type of land use action.

470

Stephanie Soden

Multnomah County Public Affairs Office. Introduces Derrick Tokos to outline policy concerns for Multnomah County for SB 348 and 349.

TAPE 9, A

030

Chair Ringo

Agrees that legislation designed for a few people is not good policy, but wants to be flexible. Gives example of a bill passed from a previous session.

040

Derrick Tokos

Principal Planner, Multnomah County. Submits and highlights written testimony in opposition to SB 348 and 349 (EXHIBIT D).  Sees this legislation as a way to circumvent Measure 37.

080

Sen. Beyer

Asks if there are other lands that this might apply to besides the Dorothy English property.

083

Tokos

Offers to return information to the committee.

089

Chair Ringo

Closes public hearing on SB 348 and SB 349 and opens public hearing on Measure 37, Secondary Lands.

MEASURE 37: SECONDARY LANDS - PUBLIC HEARING

095

Ronald Eber

Farm and Forest Land Specialist, Department of Land Conservation and Development (DLCD). Submits and highlights written testimony (EXHIBIT E). Gives history overview. Discusses:

·         Secondary lands

·         Jurisdiction and implementation

·         Oregon has provisions established for development on lands of lesser quality

·         Oregon’s process for identifying lands

155

Sen. Atkinson

Asks if DLCD recognizes the phrase “secondary lands.”

160

Eber

Clarifies that DLCD recognizes this phrase. Explains that DLCD does recognize that there are lands of different qualities and the system allows for more development on these lands than on higher quality lands.

170

Sen. Atkinson

Asks if allowing development on secondary lands instead of on high value farm land really works in rural Oregon.

175

Eber

Believes it does.

176

Sen. Atkinson

Believes that in rural Oregon the prime farm land is getting paved while what is considered secondary farm land remains untouched.

180

Eber

Addresses disagreement. States that as a general rule this has worked.

190

Sen. Atkinson

States that as a general rule this has not worked in Southern Oregon.

195

Chair Ringo

Asks Sen. Atkinson what would work.

200

Sen. Atkinson

Believes a regional approach is necessary. Discusses differences between Southern Oregon classification and Willamette Valley classification. Believes the system causes more frustration than workability.

220

Sen. Beyer

Believes it is easier to develop on flat land, which is farm land. States that the best farm land is being paved over. Remarks that it is also evident in the Willamette Valley that the system is working exactly the opposite of how it is supposed to work.

240

Sen. Burdick

Discusses previous committee. States that there is a huge difference of opinion. Discusses political pressure and states that this is a very complicated issue.

275

Sen. Beyer

Agrees with Sen. Burdick. Discusses labeling lands. Discusses inequities and intent of Measure 37.

295

Eber

Comments on concerns raised by Sen. Atkinson. States that this is a different issue than the secondary lands issue.

315

Sen. Atkinson

Asserts that this is not separate from his concerns. Reiterates that this system does not work. Believes that it is not one side that wants to pave Oregon and one side that does not. States that Oregonians are frustrated because this system does not work. Addresses Measure 37.

365

Chair Ringo

Stresses that this is one thing that Oregonians are frustrated with. Hopes that specifics can be discussed.

385

Eber

Offers assistance to committee on this subject matter.

395

Dave Hunnicutt

Oregonians In Action. Submits Land Use Planning Goal 3: Agricultural Lands and Land Use Planning Goal 4: Forest Lands (EXHIBIT F).

420

Chair Ringo

Asks if there is going to be a suggestion or a proposal.

425

Hunnicutt

Confirms that there will be. Discusses the classification of lands. Submits Excerpt from U.S. Department of Agriculture Conservation Service (EXHIBITS G) and Soil Classification Table (EXHIBIT H).

TAPE 8, B

065

Hunnicutt

Urges committee to look at defining agricultural land. Gives suggestions for definitions of agricultural land.

110

Sen. Beyer

Asks about Goal Four (EXHIBIT F, Page 2).

115

Hunnicutt

Suggests language to be deleted. Specifies that this is about commercial forest land.

125

Duane Weeks

Resident, Canby. Introduces himself and shares his background. Discusses land classes, productivity and perceived understanding of these different lands. Believe there are two problems:

  • Definition of prime farm land and the process of updating maps.
  • Explains that a septic feasibility permit is needed to build a house. Discusses process and suggests the idea of sewage treatment plants. Asks body to approve this idea.

295

Sen. Atkinson

Asks witness to summarize opinions on secondary lands.

305

Sen. Shields

Wonders how to get from here to there. Asks how to make land use planning more logical.

310

Weeks

Relates example.

325

Sen. Shields

Asks about soil.

330

Weeks

Verifies type of soil and gives another example of a plot of land with its own sewage treatment plant.

350

Weeks

Believes there needs to be some reorganization of how decisions are made.

365

Rebecca Boyle

Resident, Oregon City. Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT I). Makes opening remarks. Expresses concerns about impact on water resources. Expresses concern that the water supply will be depleted if neighbors develop land to the fullest extent possible. All of her neighbors are eligible to file Measure 37 claim. Expresses concern that there are no protections for water resources.  

TAPE 9, B

030

Sen. Shields

Believes that this is not off topic, that all land use concerns are related.

035

Sen. Atkinson

Points out that the secondary land debate doesn’t work the same everywhere in the state. Asks how deep the drill was for the second well.

045

Boyle

Responds almost 200 ft.

050

Sen. Shields

Comments about population and limited number of water resources.

060

Carrie MacLaren

Staff Attorney, 1000 Friends of Oregon. Submits and highlights written testimony (EXHIBIT J).

085

Chair Ringo

Remarks about complaints of land being mislabeled.

090

MacLaren

Comments that land can be re-designated if a landowner does not believe it is zoned properly.

095

Chair Ringo

Asks who in County who has authority to re-designate land.

096

MacLaren

Explains process for land re-designation.

100

Chair Ringo

Addresses a specific example given by Hunnicutt and asks if that can be re-designated.

105

MacLaren

Confirms that it could. Addresses specific portions of land. Suggests committee look at what kind of crops are grown in Oregon.

120

Sen. Beyer

Asks question regarding rezoning process and what to do if neighbors do not like it.

125

MacLaren

Explains that the process involves notifying neighbors. Informs that the decision can go to Court of Appeals.

135

Sen. Beyer

Asks how many years this takes and how many of these cases 1000 Friends has contested.

140

MacLaren

Shares that 1000 Friends is concerned with rezoning.

155

Sen. Beyer

States that it seems like a fairly simple process, but contends that it involves years and thousands of dollars.

160

Chair Ringo

Asks if there are times when it works smoothly.

170

MacLaren

Refers to Figure 1 of (EXHIBIT J). Gives statistics on vineyards. Discusses classification of soils. Remarks on the urban growth boundary.

230

Harlan Levy

Senior Staff Attorney, Oregon Association of Realtors. Introduces himself. States that Measure 37 is an opportunity for the legislature to deal with secondary lands. States that this is the absence of planning on resource lands which resulted in serious economic issues for the state.

280

Levy

Urges committee to pass planning legislation and return local control to County Commissioner. Concludes testimony.

300

Chair Ringo

Asks if there is a bill drafted.

302

Levy

Verifies that there is not a current bill, but offers to work with the committee to do so.

305

Chair Ringo

Asks if there have been bills drafted in past sessions.

306

Levy

Speaks about previous bill.

315

Chair Ringo

Asks if there is a concept paper relating to bill from last session.

316

Levy

Offers to bring it in.

325

Art Schlack

Policy Manager, Association of Oregon Counties (AOC). Introduces himself. Discusses conservation of agricultural land and process of identifying secondary lands. Discusses approach to classifications and suggests re-examining by a legislative process on a county by county basis. States that this will address some of the Measure 37 issues.

420

Chair Ringo

Asks witness to articulate what process he doesn’t want to go though again.

423

Schlack

Explains that the AOC has not been able to identify secondary lands. States that it isn’t a question of what lands are secondary lands but what is not exclusive farm or forest land.

450

Chair Ringo

Asks what this committee should do.

455

Schlack

Recommends giving counties flexibility and to re-examine lands. 

470

Chair Ringo

Expresses uncertainty about what witness wants this committee to do.

TAPE 10, A

040

Schlack

Asks committee to provide direction and funding.

050

Chair Ringo

Closes public hearing on Measure 37, Secondary Lands and adjourns meeting at 4:58 p.m.

 

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A.     SB 353, written testimony, Harlan Levy, 2 pp

B.     Introductions, LC 265, Staff, 146 pp

C.     Introductions, LC 1449, Staff, 2 pp

D.    SB 348 and SB 349, Derrick Tokos, 2 pp

E.     Measure 37, written testimony, Ronald Eber, 5 pp

F.      Measure 37, land use planning goals, Dave Hunnicutt, 2 pp

G.    Measure 37, excerpt, Dave Hunnicutt, 1 p

H.    Measure 37, table, Dave Hunnicutt, 11 pp

I.       Measure 37, written testimony, Rebecca Boyle, 4 pp

J.      Measure 37, written testimony, Carrie, MacLaren, 12 pp