SENATE COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT & LAND USE

 

 

May 19, 2005                                                                                                       Hearing Room 343

8:00 A.M.                                                                                                                     Tapes 94 - 96

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:         Sen. Charlie Ringo, Chair

Sen. Jason Atkinson, Vice-Chair

Sen. Roger Beyer

Sen. Frank Shields

 

MEMBER EXCUSED:          Sen. Ginny Burdick

 

 

STAFF PRESENT:                 Matt Shields, Committee Administrator

Katie Lowry, Committee Assistant

 

MEASURES/ISSUES HEARD:        

SB 245 – Work Session

HB 3038 A – Public Hearing

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 94, A

005

Chair Ringo

Calls meeting to order at 8:04 a.m. Announces that SB 532, SB 347, and SB 699 will be held over until the next scheduled meeting. Opens work session on SB 245.

SB 245 – WORK SESSION

 

Matt Shields

Committee Administrator. Submits the -3 amendments for the record (EXHIBIT A).

016

Randy Tucker

Legislative Affairs Manager, Metro. Discusses analysis of urban growth boundary. Explains the -3 amendments.

033

Chair Ringo

Asks John Chandler about the -3 amendments. Understands that witness is not opposed to the -3 amendments.

044

John Chandler

Oregon Home Builders Association (OHBA). States the OHBA is not opposed to the -3 amendments. Explains the OHBA does not like SB 245 in its current form, but is willing to continue the conversation.

057

Chair Ringo

Closes work session on SB 245 and announces that SB 245 will be held over until the next scheduled meeting. Opens public hearing on HB 3038 A.

HB 3038 A – PUBLIC HEARING

065

Sen. Ben Westlund

Represents Senate District 27. Testifies in support of HB 3038 A.

128

Rep. Arnie Roblan

Represents House District 9. Comments that HB 3038 A passed in the House 53-4. Gives background information on HB 3038 A. States support for HB 3038 A. Makes comments about growth and water conservation.

228

Sen. Beyer

Comments about treating government entities different than people. States that HB 3038 A treats government different than people. Asks witnesses why this is a good idea and good public policy.

234

Sen. Westlund

States that government is the representative of the people. Discusses separating government from people. Discusses necessity of municipalities to have access to commodities.

260

Rep. Roblan

Concurs with Sen. Westlund. Discusses purpose of government.

288

Sen. Beyer

Asks Sen. Westlund why HB 3038 A should be limited to municipal water systems. Asks why irrigation districts would not be included.

294

Sen. Westlund

Discusses the differences between municipalities and irrigation districts. States that no irrigation district that he knows of in the state is faced with an expanding land base where they are required to add additional cubic feet and adjudicated water rights to their systems.

313

Sen. Beyer

Asks if he would like to hear about one.

314

Sen. Westlund

Asks if there is one.

315

Sen. Beyer

Discusses a water irrigation district in Senate District 9 that is working to build a project.

320

Sen. Westlund

Responds. Asks if they are using additional water.

331

Sen. Beyer

Replies yes and explains that they currently have no water.

332

Sen. Westlund

Verifies that once the project is complete the ground water adjudication rights will be vacated.

335

Sen. Beyer

Replies yes and explains that they have temporary ground water permits.

336

Sen. Westlund

Verifies that they are using no additional new water.

338

Sen. Beyer

Replies no and explains.

344

Sen. Shields

States that he is a co-sponsor of HB 3038 A and explains. Believes that both witnesses have a conscious concern about environmental issues. Asks about taking time for studying concerns.

369

Sen. Westlund

States that the time for studying is done. Discusses the Deschutes Basin ground water study.

TAPE 95, A

028

Rep. Roblan

Appreciates Sen. Shields’ question. Discusses water supply in Coos Bay. Opines there is no more surface water left in Oregon. Provides details. Discusses studies and planning in regards to water rights.

078

Glen Kirkpatrick

Resident, Clackamas County. Submits and reads written testimony in opposition to HB 3038 A (EXHIBIT B).

115

Willie Tiffany

League of Oregon Cities. Submits and discusses white paper titled “Long-Term Water Supply Planning” (EXHIBIT C). Submits and discusses book entitledWater Conservation and Management Plans (EXHIBIT D). Submits written testimony in support of HB 3038 A (EXHIBIT E). Submits written testimony on behalf of Rep. Brad Witt, House District 31, in support of HB 3038 A (EXHIBIT F). Gives background information on HB 3038 A. Discusses water conservation and management plans. Refers to submitted white paper (EXHIBIT C). States that municipalities must present a plan that provides information about how much water they need to develop over the next 20 years.

218

Chair Ringo

Asks if that plan is as rigorous in protecting the public interest as if they had to obtain a new permit.

221

Tiffany

Replies that it is not the same process as obtaining a new water right. States that he will defer to another witness to discuss the development of these plans.

225

Tiffany

Continues explanation of the plans municipalities must provide. Says that the Water Resources Department (WRD) has the opportunity to deny a municipality the ability to develop water. Discusses law suit mentioned in earlier testimony. Discusses opposition to HB 3038 A and explains section 5 of HB 3038 A.

279

Rick Glick

Attorney, Davis Wright Tremaine LLP. Submits and discusses written testimony in support of HB 3038 A (EXHIBIT G).

365

Glick

Discusses law suits in Coos Bay and Deschutes Basin.

TAPE 94, B

002

Glick

Discusses proposed language for amendments to HB 3038 A (EXHIBIT G, Page 3).

019

Sen. Beyer

Asks if witness is proposing new amendments to the A-engrossed bill.

020

Tiffany

States there are technical amendments that were not ready for today’s hearing. Provides details.

028

Glick

Continues discussing proposed language for amendments to the A-engrossed bill.

049

Chair Ringo

Asks who would benefit if permits received by municipalities 50 years ago that haven’t been acted on lost their priority. Wonders if it would be industrial users, agricultural users, or in-stream water rights.

055

Glick

Replies all of the above. Provides details.

060

Chair Ringo

Asks about the relation between the 20 year time period to develop a water right and the bonding period. Asks if there is a logical connection between the two.

070

Glick

Responds.

084

Chair Ringo

Verifies that witness doesn’t see a connection between the details of the bonding and the 20 year time period.

089

Glick

Believes there to be no connection between the laws regarding revenue bonding and the 20 year time period.

091

Sen. Shields

Mentions court cases discussed earlier. Asks witnesses if they believe that HB 3038 A and the amendments they will propose are steps towards making a compromise with WaterWatch.

097

Glick

Explains intent of HB 3038 A.

127

Tiffany

Explains they have been working with WaterWatch as they drafted the bill and throughout the process. States they have come a long way, but have not been able to come eye to eye. Offers willingness to negotiate.

139

Chair Ringo

Makes comment.

144

Todd Heidgerken

Manager of Community and Intergovernmental Relations, Tualatin Valley Water District (TVWD). Gives background information on TVWD. Discusses:

·         Planning for future water supply

·         Water Service Master Plan

·         Water Management and Conservation Plan

·         Development of water source

224

Chair Ringo

Asks if witness has written testimony to provide.

225

Heidgerken

States he will provide written testimony to the committee.

230

Heidgerken

Continues discussion of the development of a water source. Points out that they try to work with other municipal water providers.

270

Sen. Shields

Points out that all three witnesses mentioned public input somewhere in their testimony. Discusses public interest review of establishing a water right. Opines that the public interest review is probably different in 2005 than it was in 1920 or 1950. Wonders how to reconcile an old water right with all the changes that have occurred.

287

Glick

Responds.

307

Tiffany

States that the amendments mentioned earlier were just received. Submits the –A6 amendments for the record (EXHIBIT H).

315

Adam Sussman

Legislative Coordinator, WRD. Submits written testimony on HB 3038 A (EXHIBIT I). States for the record that the WRD supports HB 3038 A with the –A6 amendments that were just distributed. Discuses section 5 of HB 3038 A. Discusses undeveloped municipal permits. Discusses extension of municipal permits.

397

Chair Ringo

Asks if the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife (ODFW) is satisfied with the status of the Gleneden Beach situation.

400

Sussman

Responds.

TAPE 95, B

007

Sen. Shields

Mentions comment made by witness in testimony regarding effects of a court decision. Asks if witness believes that the Supreme Court knew that these effects would take place. Asks if witness believes that the Supreme Court understood what they were doing.

014

Sussman

States that the mentioned discussion took place for four years prior to the Supreme Court decision.

015

Sen. Shields

Asks if witness believes the Supreme Court was unaware of that.

016

Sussman

Responds.

033

Sussman

Discusses Water Management and Conservation Plans.

060

Sussman

Discuses the –A6 amendments.

080

Brian Posewitz

President of the Board of Directors, WaterWatch. Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT J). Submits the –A5 amendments for the record (EXHIBIT K). Gives background information on WaterWatch. Explains HB 3038 A. Discusses Oregon’s Water Law. Discusses timeline between a permit issuance and the actual use of the water.

133

Posewitz

Discusses current law. References submitted testimony.

163

Chair Ringo

Points out that witness said some of the water rights are being used without a certificate. Asks for explanation.

165

Posewitz

Responds. Continues discussion of unused water rights.

219

Chair Ringo

Asks about the city of Adair Village.

220

Posewitz

Responds.

223

Chair Ringo

Asks where the money from the sale of the unused water right would go.

225

Posewitz

Replies that he doesn’t know. Explains.

229

Karen Russell

WaterWatch. Believes that Adair Village is planning on using the money from the sale of the water as a revenue source for economic development for the city.

233

Posewitz

Discusses the court case involving Coos Bay.

252

Posewitz

Discusses HB 3038 A.

276

Chair Ringo

Discusses timeline for land use planning required of cities. Wonders about planning for water rights for the same amount of time.

281

Posewitz

Discusses planning for 20 years. States that HB 3038 A allows for more than a 20 year water planning horizon.

283

Chair Ringo

Verifies that witness is concerned about the extensions after 20 years.

286

Posewitz

Replies yes.

287

Chair Ringo

Verifies that witness’ amendments state that the initial time is 10 years.

290

Posewitz

Replies yes and explains.

317

Posewitz

Continues discussion of HB 3038 A.

335

Posewitz

Discusses mentioned conservation plans.

352

Posewitz

Discusses municipal water use. Makes closing remarks.

367

Sen. Shields

States that he cares about both sides of this issue. Asks if there is room for further compromise.

376

Posewitz

Discusses the –A5 amendments.

392

Russell

Makes comment.

403

Paul Katen

Resident, Otis. Scientist. Volunteer and President, Salmon Drift Creek Watershed Council in Lincoln City. Testifies in opposition to HB 3038 A.

TAPE 96, A

001

Katen

Continues testimony in opposition to HB 3038 A.

042

Chair Ringo

Asks when Lincoln City obtained the mentioned permits.

043

Katen

Believes the 1960s.

044

Katen

Concludes testimony in opposition to HB 3038 A.

060

Lorna Stickel

Portland Water Bureau, Water Resources Planning Manager and Project Manager for the Regional Water Providers Consortium. Submits informational packet (EXHIBIT L). Testifies in support of HB 3038 A.

085

Chair Ringo

Comments about impact of this issue. Cites examples and says additional information would be helpful.

090

Stickel

Responds.

097

Chair Ringo

Verifies that a city could develop 20 percent of a water right.

098

Stickel

Replies 25 percent.

099

Chair Ringo

States that witness said that they need to develop more than 25 percent before they can get a certificate.

100

Stickel

Clarifies perfected, not receive a certificate. Discusses:

·         City of Portland’s water right

·         Plans required by municipalities for water rights

·         Financing

139

Chair Ringo

Asks about the 20 year time period.

140

Stickel

Replies 20 years is the standard payback period for municipal bonds.

141

Chair Ringo

States that may be the payback period, but wonders about connection to development.

143

Stickel

Responds.

150

Stickel

Concludes testimony in support of HB 3038 A. References submitted materials.

189

Tom Hickmann

City of Bend Water Utility Manager. Submits informational packet (EXHIBIT M). Highlights written testimony included in submitted materials.

268

Paul Eckley

Operations Manager, City of Salem Public Works Department. Submits and highlights written testimony in support of HB 3038 A (EXHIBIT N).

368

Stickel

Makes comment.

373

Chair Ringo

Believes that it is important to pass legislation on this issue.

379

David Moskowitz

Wild Salmon Center. Testifies in opposition to HB 3038 A.

400

Chair Ringo

Closes public hearing HB 3038 A and adjourns meeting at 10:23 a.m.

 

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A.     SB 245, -3 amendments, staff, 2 pp

B.     HB 3038 A, written testimony, Glen Kirkpatrick, 1 p

C.     HB 3038 A, white paper, Willie Tiffany, 12 pp

D.    HB 3038 A, book, Willie Tiffany, oversized

E.     HB 3038 A, written testimony, Willie Tiffany, 2 pp

F.      HB 3038 A, written testimony of Rep. Brad Witt, Willie Tiffany, 1 p

G.    HB 3038 A, written testimony, Rick Glick, 4 pp

H.    HB 3038 A, -A6 amendments, Willie Tiffany, 9 pp

I.       HB 3038 A, written testimony, Adam Sussman, 2 pp

J.      HB 3038 A, written testimony, Brian Posewitz, 16 pp

K.    HB 3038 A, -A5 amendments, Brian Posewitz, 7 pp

L.     HB 3038 A, informational packet, Lorna Stickel, 16 pp

M.  HB 3038 A, informational packet, Tom Hickmann, 61 pp

N.    HB 3038 A, written testimony, Paul Eckley, 15 pp