SENATE COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT & LAND USE

 

 

June 02, 2005                                                                                                      Hearing Room 343

8:00 A.M.                                                                                                                 Tapes 105 - 106

Corrected 10/18/05

MEMBERS PRESENT:         Sen. Charlie Ringo, Chair

Sen. Jason Atkinson, Vice-Chair

Sen. Roger Beyer

Sen. Ginny Burdick

Sen. Frank Shields

 

 

STAFF PRESENT:                 Matt Shields, Committee Administrator      

                                                Chris Crean, Committee Counsel

Katie Lowry, Committee Assistant

 

MEASURES/ISSUES HEARD:        

HB 2875 – Work Session

SB 527 – Work Session

HB 2484 – Public Hearing and Work Session

HB 2458A – Work Session

HB 2722 – Work Session

HB 3310A – Work Session

HB 3038A – Work Session

HB 3349 – Work Session

SB 344 – Work Session

SB 734 – Work Session

SB 785 – Work Session

SB 786 – Work Session

HB 2537 – Work Session

HB 2581 – Work Session

HB 2582 – Work Session

HB 2668 – Work Session

HB 2705A – Work Session

HB 2729A – Work Session

HB 3117 – Work Session

 

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 105, A

005

Chair Ringo

Calls meeting to order at 8:04 a.m. and opens work session on HB 2875.

HB 2875 – WORK SESSION

015

Matt Shields

Committee Administrator. Provides an overview of HB 2875.

020

Chair Ringo

States that WaterWatch is opposed to HB 2875. Believes their opposition to be valid, but only minor. Points out there are no amendments.

025

Sen. Atkinson

MOTION:  Moves HB 2875 to the floor with a DO PASS recommendation.

027

 

VOTE:  3-0-2

EXCUSED:  2 - Burdick, Shields

 

Chair Ringo

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

SEN. BEYER will lead discussion on the floor.

031

Chair Ringo

Closes work session on HB 2875 and opens work session on SB 527.

SB 527 – WORK SESSION

036

Matt Shields

Committee Administrator. Provides an overview of SB 527.

041

Chair Ringo

Asks committee staff to briefly describe the -6 amendments.

045

Shields

Submits and explains the -6 amendments (EXHIBIT A).

049

Chair Ringo

Discusses the arbitration section of SB 527 with the -6 amendments. States he received a memo from the Department of Justice that there may be some ambiguities. Wants to attempt to fix the ambiguities in the House.

058

Sen. Beyer

Points out concerns with SB 527 with the -6 amendments.

061

Chair Ringo

Asks if that is in the arbitration section.

062

Sen. Beyer

Replies yes. Explains it also has to do with what the arbitration would be deciding on in regards to environmental, economical and social consequences. States he will support the motion.

066

Sen. Atkinson

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT SB 527-6 amendments dated 04/28/05.

067

 

VOTE:  4-0-1

EXCUSED:  1 - Burdick

 

Chair Ringo

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

071

Sen. Atkinson

Comments that he hopes SB 527 doesn’t change in the House. Explains.

073

Sen. Atkinson

MOTION:  Moves SB 527 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

074

Sen. Atkinson

MOTION:  Moves SB 527 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation and the SUBSEQUENT REFERRAL to the committee on Ways and Means BE RESCINDED.

075

 

VOTE:  4-0-1

EXCUSED:  1 - Burdick

 

Chair Ringo

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

SEN. MORISETTE will lead discussion on the floor.

The following material is submitted for the record without public testimony:

 

Mike Grainey

Director, Oregon Department of Energy. Submits a memorandum from the Department of Justice regarding the arbitration section of the -6 amendments (EXHIBIT B).

085

Chair Ringo

Closes work session on SB 527 and opens work session on HB 2484.

HB 2484 – WORK SESSION

090

Matt Shields

Committee Administrator. Provides an overview of HB 2484. Submits the -12 amendments to HB 2484 (EXHIBIT C).

095

Chair Ringo

Recesses work session on HB 2484 and opens public hearing on HB 2484.

HB 2484 – PUBLIC HEARING

107

Sen. Beyer

Verifies that Mr. Shields was referring to the -12 amendments.

108

Matt Shields

Committee Administrator. Replies yes.

110

Jerry Ritter

Oregon Communities for a Voice in Annexations. Submits and discusses written testimony in support of HB 2484 (EXHIBIT D).

175

Ted Hughes

J.C. Reeves Corporation. Testifies in support of HB 2484. Explains the -12 amendments.

223

Nick Slinde

General Counsel, J.C. Reeves Corporation. Introduces himself.

226

Sen. Shields

Asks how the J.C. Reeves Corporation ended up with a piece of property that is inside the city and outside the urban growth boundary (UGB). Asks how this happened to their company and if they recognized the consequences of it.

230

Slinde

Provides a history of this property.

236

Sen. Shields

States that is a bizarre situation. Makes comments.

240

Chair Ringo

Verifies the -12 amendments appeared at 4:45 p.m. on 06/01/05.

242

Hughes

Asks for clarification.

243

Chair Ringo

Wonders if witness received these amendments late in the day yesterday.

244

Hughes

Replies yes, at 4:45 p.m.

245

Chair Ringo

Verifies that the -12 amendments gut and stuff the original bill.

246

Hughes

Replies yes.

247

Chair Ringo

Makes comments.

248

Sen. Shields

Asks if there is any other bill that witness could use. Wonders if witness received some false information when he was told that this bill was not needed.

251

Hughes

Responds.

255

Chair Ringo

States that there is someone in the audience shaking their head no. States SB 887 (2005) is not law yet.

257

Hughes

Replies yes. Understands SB 887 (2005) came out of the House committee yesterday.

263

Ken Henschel

Citizen, Bull Mountain. Submits and reads written testimony in support of HB 2484 (EXHIBIT E).

330

Henschel

Concludes reading written testimony.

339

Linda Ludwig

League of Oregon Cities. Testifies in opposition to HB 2484.

371

Chair Ringo

Asks if witness finds HB 2484 less objectionable than SB 887 (2005).

373

Ludwig

Replies no. Believes SB 887 (2005) is less objectionable.

380

Ludwig

Remarks she had not seen the -12 amendments until 10 minutes ago.

386

Rep. Jerry Krummel

House District 26. Testifies in support of HB 2484. Asks committee to pass HB 2484 to the floor as drafted. Discusses the -12 amendments.

TAPE 106, A

022

Chair Ringo

Remarks the committee will not gut and stuff HB 2484.

025

Sen. Beyer

Mentions that SB 887 (2005) was moved out of committee yesterday. Points out that both bills amend the same section of statute. Wonders if HB 2484 will eventually need a conflict amendment if it is passed out of committee without an amendment.

030

Shields

States that Legislative Counsel (LC) did not believe that HB 2484 needed a conflict amendment.

032

Chair Ringo

States there is a possibility that SB 887 (2005) will go to a conference committee.

036

Rep. Krummel

Mentions that he checked with LC regarding this issue. States that LC confirmed there are no conflicts between the two bills. Explains in detail.

045

Sen. Beyer

Wonders about two bills that amend the same section of law in different manners with no conflict amendments.

049

Chris Crean

Committee Counsel. Explains that generally the conflict amendments are appended to the trailing bill.

051

Sen. Beyer

Wonders if the bill that gets signed last is the bill that is made into law if neither bill is amended with a conflict amendment.

053

Crean

Defers to LC. States LC may have the authority, editorially, to combine those bills in the codification process.

058

Sen. Beyer

Discusses concerns regarding sunsets.

060

Chair Ringo

Recesses public hearing on HB 2484 and opens a work session on HB 2458A.

HB 2458A – WORK SESSION

 

Matt Shields

Committee Administrator. Submits the –A4 amendments (EXHIBIT F) and the –A5 amendments to HB 2458A (EXHIBIT G).

075

Harlan Levy

Oregon Association of Realtors. Testifies in support of HB 2458A with the –A4 amendments.

103

Chair Ringo

Asks if the –A4 amendments remove the applicability of commercial from the bill.

104

Levy

Replies yes.

105

Chair Ringo

Verifies that the –A4 amendments focus the bill on industrial, increase the size of the city to 20,000, and remove the sunset.

109

Levy

Confirms this. Explains that it also adds a provision about amending a state wide planning goal.

111

Art Schlack

Association of Oregon Counties. Testifies in support of HB 2458A with the –A4 amendments.

130

Chair Ringo

Asks Lane Shetterly to talk about the –A5 amendments.

134

Chair Ringo

States that the –A5 amendments extend the sunset rather than remove it. Verifies that is the only difference between the –A4 and the –A5 amendments.

135

Levy

Replies correct.

136

Lane Shetterly

Director, Department of Land Conservation and Development. Testifies in support of HB 2458A with the –A5 amendments.

160

Sen. Shields

Asks Mr. Schlack if he supports the –A5 amendments. Wonders why witness is not comfortable with the –A5 amendments.

164

Schlack

States preference for removing the sunset. Explains they would accept an extension of the sunset, but it is not their preference. Discusses work group mentioned by Director Shetterly.

185

Shetterly

Comments on geographic scope. Discusses work group. Makes comments regarding Measure 37.

210

Elon Hasson

Legislative Director, 1000 Friends of Oregon. Testifies in neutrality to HB 2458A with the –A5 amendments. Discusses work group mentioned by Director Shetterly.

228

Stephen Kafoury

Oregon Chapter of the American Planning Association (APA). Explains they just received the –A5 amendments.

235

Chair Ringo

Believes that the committee will adopt the –A5 amendments. Asks witness to comment on the effect of the –A5 amendments.

237

Kafoury

Believes there is not a need for HB 2458A.

243

Brian Campbell

Former Planning Manager for the Port or Portland. Oregon Chapter of the APA. Discusses concerns with HB 2458A. Explains the –A5 amendments are better than the –A4 amendments.

257

Sen. Shields

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT HB 2458-A5 amendments dated 06/01/05.

263

Sen. Beyer

States opposition to the –A5 amendments. States support for the –A4 amendments. Explains.

275

Sen. Shields

Mentions Director Shetterly’s comments. Asks for clarification.

281

Chair Ringo

Provides clarification.

293

Sen. Atkinson

Explains skepticism for work groups and task forces. States opposition to the –A5 amendments.

304

Chair Ringo

Appreciates Sen. Atkinson’s comments. Explains reason for adopting the –A5 amendments.

310

 

VOTE:  3-2-0

AYE:               3 - Burdick, Shields, Ringo

NAY:               2 - Atkinson, Beyer

 

Chair Ringo

The motion CARRIES.

315

Sen. Shields

MOTION:  Moves HB 2458A to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

318

 

VOTE:  3-2-0

AYE:               3 - Burdick, Shields, Ringo

NAY:               2 - Atkinson, Beyer

 

Chair Ringo

The motion CARRIES.

SEN. RINGO will lead discussion on the floor.

322

Chair Ringo

Closes work session on HB 2458A and opens work session on HB 2722.

HB 2722 – WORK SESSION

330

Matt Shields

Committee Administrator. Provides an overview of HB 2722. Submits and explains the -1 amendments (EXHIBIT H) and the -2 amendments to HB 2722 (EXHIBIT I).

350

Chair Ringo

States there have been several discussions on this bill. Asks Linda Ludwig for clarification regarding amendments.

359

Linda Ludwig

League of Oregon Cities. Prefers the -2 amendments. Requests that the -1 amendments be adopted if the committee will not adopt the -2 amendments.

364

Chair Ringo

Explains the -1 amendments change “and” back to “or” as the statute currently is.

368

Sen. Shields

Verifies the sponsors support the -1 amendments.

370

Chair Ringo

Confirms this.

371

Sen. Beyer

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT HB 2722-1 amendments dated 04/21/05.

378

Sen. Burdick

Explains she will be opposing the bill, but will not oppose the -1 amendments.

379

 

VOTE:  4-0-1

EXCUSED:  1 - Atkinson

 

Chair Ringo

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

380

Sen. Beyer

MOTION:  Moves HB 2722 to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

385

Sen. Burdick

Explains opposition to HB 2722. Mentions SB 82 (2005).

396

Chair Ringo

Responds.

398

 

VOTE:  3-1-1

AYE:               3 - Beyer, Shields, Ringo

NAY:               1 - Burdick

EXCUSED:     1 - Atkinson

 

Chair Ringo

The motion CARRIES.

SEN. RINGO will lead discussion on the floor.

408

Chair Ringo

Asks about Sen. Beyer’s question regarding HB 2484.

409

Chris Crean

Committee Counsel. States that he checked with Legislative Counsel (LC). Explains that when the amendments do not conflict substantively, LC has the authority to merge the amendments editorially. Explains a conflict amendment would only be necessary if the amendments conflicted in a more substantive way.

TAPE 105, B

008

Chair Ringo

Closes work session on HB 2722 and re-opens work session on HB 2484.

HB 2484 – WORK SESSION

013

Sen. Atkinson

MOTION:  Moves HB 2484 to the floor with a DO PASS recommendation.

015

Sen. Beyer

Comments on the -12 amendments.

019

Chair Ringo

States the committee will be moving some bills to the Rules Committee. Explains SB 887 (2005) may go to conference committee and there may be room to take care of the concerns of the J.C. Reeves Corporation.

023

Sen. Shields

Agrees with Sen. Beyer. Encourages proponents of the -12 amendments to look at existing bills, or ask the Rules Committee to draft a bill to address this situation.

026

 

VOTE:  4-1-0

AYE:               4 - Atkinson, Beyer, Shields, Ringo

NAY:               1 - Burdick

 

Chair Ringo

The motion CARRIES.

SEN. RINGO will lead discussion on the floor.

031

Chair Ringo

Closes work session on HB 2484 and opens work session HB 3310A.

HB 3310A – WORK SESSION

 

Matt Shields

Committee Administrator. Submits the –A4 amendments (EXHIBIT J) and the –A5 amendments to HB 3310A (EXHIBIT K).

035

Chair Ringo

Makes opening remarks.

044

Rep. Mitch Greenlick

House District 33. Provides background information on the city of Beaverton. Discusses the –A4 amendments. States support for HB 3310A with the –A4 amendments.

078

Paul Parker

Save Cedar Mill. Testifies in support of HB 3310A with the –A4 amendments.

103

Chair Ringo

Asks witness to point out the area on the map of the Beaverton city limits.

107

Parker

Discusses visual aid.

121

Parker

Continues testimony in support of HB 3310A with the –A4 amendments.

133

Jim Johnson

Resident, Cedar Hills. Testifies in support of HB 3310A with the –A4 amendments.

156

Sen. Atkinson

Asks what is currently on the mentioned property.

157

Rep. Greenlick

Responds.

163

Sen. Atkinson

Asks if it is zoned exclusive farm use (EFU).

164

Rep. Greenlick

Replies no.

165

Sen. Atkinson

Asks what it is zoned as.

166

Rep. Greenlick

Believes it is a proper zone for the commercial development.

167

Parker

States it is zoned transit oriented retail.

169

Sen. Atkinson

States that in rural Oregon, these kinds of developments get tied up in the Land Conservation and Development Commission (LCDC) and people hire lawyers to waste time. Wonders why that can’t be done in this situation. Wonders why legislation needs to be passed.

172

Rep. Greenlick

Explains purpose of HB 3310A. Explains it isn’t clear which jurisdiction is going to make this decision.

179

Sen. Atkinson

Remarks that Rep. Greenlick just made his point. Comments the rest of Oregon doesn’t know which jurisdiction things are. Relates story of a constituent. Makes remarks on passing legislation for the Willamette Valley. States his constituents face this same problem daily, except they have to hire lawyers instead of pass legislation.

197

Rep. Greenlick

Discusses attempts to fix these problems. Agrees with Sen. Burdick’s remarks regarding SB 82 (2005). Mentions Measure 37. Believes the land use planning system needs to be reviewed. States he has tried to help the situation in southern Oregon.

214

Sen. Atkinson

Thanks Rep. Greenlick for his efforts. States they both have to represent their districts. Discusses concerns with establishing a task force.

220

Rep. Greenlick

Makes comment.

221

Chair Ringo

States that rural Oregon is not the only place where people are frustrated with the land use system. Makes comments on fixing issues with the land use system in all parts of the state.

228

Sen. Atkinson

Discusses differences in timeline between rural Oregon and metro Oregon.

236

Chair Ringo

Remarks that John Chandler with the Oregon Home Builders Association doesn’t believe things happen quickly in the metro area.

244

Julie Brandis

Associated Oregon Industries. Discusses opposition to the –A4 amendments.

269

Chair Ringo

Comments the mentioned property was annexed into the City of Beaverton and then it was immediately announced that the development would take place with very little ability for the citizens to participate.

274

Lane Shetterly

Director, Department of Land Conservation and Development. Testifies in support of HB 3310A as originally drafted. Discusses concerns with the amendments.

299

Linda Ludwig

League of Oregon Cities. Concurs with Director Shetterly’s concerns with the –A4 amendments. Asks committee to adopt the –A5 amendments.

309

Chair Ringo

Recesses work session on HB 3310A and opens work session on HB 3038A.

HB 3038A – WORK SESSION

 

Matt Shields

Committee Administrator. Submits the –A7 amendments for the record (EXHIBIT L).

319

Willie Tiffany

League of Oregon Cities. Provides an overview of HB 3038A. Discusses the –A7 amendments.

354

Adam Sussman

Water Resources Department (WRD). Discusses the –A7 amendments.

TAPE 106, B

020

Doug Myers

WaterWatch. Explains support for HB 3038A with the –A7 amendments. Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT M).

033

Sen. Beyer

Mentions that Mr. Sussman said that any new permit issued to a municipality would be a 20-year permit.

035

Sussman

Replies correct. Explains in detail.

039

Sen. Beyer

Verifies that it doesn’t change a new permit issued for an irrigation district or a new permit issued for a private party. Verifies those permits are still at five years.

041

Sussman

Replies correct. Remarks on discussion at previous hearing.

055

Sen. Burdick

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT HB 3038-A7 amendments dated 06/02/05.

056

 

VOTE:  5-0-0

 

Chair Ringo

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

057

Chair Ringo

MOTION:  Moves HB 3038A to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

058

Sen. Beyer

Explains opposition to HB 3038A. Expresses appreciation for the –A7 amendments.

067

Chair Ringo

Expresses astonishment that Sen. Beyer would oppose something he acknowledges as a good idea because he believes it doesn’t solve enough people’s problems.

068

Sen. Beyer

States he would have supported the bill if it had solved the problem for everyone.

069

Chair Ringo

Relates he would have been happy to see those amendments. Points out they were not offered.

070

 

VOTE:  4-1-0

AYE:               4 - Atkinson, Burdick, Shields, Ringo

NAY:               1 - Beyer

 

Chair Ringo

The motion CARRIES.

SEN. RINGO will lead discussion on the floor.

The following material is submitted for the record without public testimony:

 

Todd Heidgerken

Special Districts Association of Oregon, Tualatin Valley Water District. Submits written testimony in support of HB 3038A (EXHIBIT N).

079

Chair Ringo

Closes work session on HB 3038A and re-opens work session on HB 3310A.

HB 3310A – WORK SESSION

082

Sen. Shields

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT HB 3310-A5 amendments dated 06/01/05.

083

 

VOTE:  5-0-0

 

Chair Ringo

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

085

Sen. Shields

MOTION:  Moves to ADOPT HB 3310-A4 amendments dated 06/01/05.

086

Sen. Burdick

Explains she will support the –A4 amendments. Comments about the original bill. States she hopes the original bill will make it through the process even if the Wal-Mart provision does not.

092

Sen. Beyer

States he will not support the –A4 amendments.

093

 

VOTE:  3-2-0

AYE:               3 - Burdick, Shields, Ringo

NAY:               2 - Atkinson, Beyer

 

Chair Ringo

The motion CARRIES.

096

Sen. Shields

MOTION:  Moves HB 3310A to the floor with a DO PASS AS AMENDED recommendation.

109

 

VOTE:  3-2-0

AYE:               3 - Burdick, Shields, Ringo

NAY:               2 - Atkinson, Beyer

 

Chair Ringo

The motion CARRIES.

SEN. RINGO will lead discussion on the floor.

106

Chair Ringo

Closes work session on HB 3310A and opens work session on HB 3349.

HB 3349 – WORK SESSION

111

Chair Ringo

Explains the –8 amendments.

114

Chair Ringo

Explains the –9 amendments. Hopes to move the –8 amendments to HB 3349.

120

Sen. Shields

Asks about the -7 amendments.

127

Chair Ringo

Responds. Discusses Measure 37.

140

Sen. Shields

Asks for clarification on the -7 amendments.

141

Chair Ringo

Explains the -7 amendments.

150

Sen. Burdick

Concurs with Chair Ringo.

151

Sen. Shields

Explains the -7 amendments might help the rural area.

152

Chair Ringo

Believes the committee has done many things to help rural Oregon this session.

171

Sen. Shields

States this issue catches him by surprise.

173

Chair Ringo

Says that the committee does not have to move the bill today.

175

Sen. Shields

Comments that the bill can be moved to the Rules Committee and worked on there.

178

Chair Ringo

Closes work session on HB 3349 and opens work session on SB 344, SB 734, SB 785, SB 786, HB 2537, HB 2581, HB 2582, HB 2668, HB 2705A, HB 2729A, HB 3117, and HB 3349.

SB 344, SB 734, SB 785, SB 786, HB 2537, HB 2581, HB 2582, HB 2668, HB 2705A, HB 2729A, HB 3117, and HB 3349 – WORK SESSION

 

Matt Shields

Committee Administrator. Submits SB 344-1 amendments (EXHIBIT O), SB 344-2 amendments (EXHIBIT P), HB 2729-A2 amendments (EXHIBIT Q), HB 3349-7 amendments (EXHIBIT R), HB 3349-8 amendments (EXHIBIT S), and HB 3349-9 amendments (EXHIBIT T) for the record.

190

Sen. Ringo

MOTION:  Moves SB 344, SB 734, SB 785, SB 786, HB 2537, HB 2581, HB 2582, HB 2668, HB 2705A, HB 2729A, HB 3117, and HB 3349 to the floor WITHOUT RECOMMENDATION as to passage and BE REFERRED to the committee on Rules.

 

 

VOTE:  5-0-0

206

Chair Ringo

Hearing no objection, declares the motion CARRIED.

The following material is submitted for the record without public testimony:

 

Jim Cathcart

Department of Forestry. Submits written testimony in support of SB 785 (EXHIBIT U).

198

Chair Ringo

Closes work session on SB 344, SB 734, SB 785, SB 786, HB 2537, HB 2581, HB 2582, HB 2668, HB 2705, HB 2729, HB 3117, and HB 3349 and adjourns meeting at 9:42 a.m.

 

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A.     SB 527, -6 amendments, staff, 13 pp

B.     SB 527, memorandum from the Department of Justice, Mike Grainey, 2 pp

C.     HB 2484, -12 amendments, staff, 2 pp

D.    HB 2484, written testimony, Jerry Ritter, 2 pp

E.     HB 2484, written testimony, Ken Henschel, 4 pp

F.      HB 2458A, -A4 amendments, staff, 2 pp

G.    HB 2458A, -A5 amendments, staff, 2 pp

H.    HB 2722, -1 amendments, staff, 1 p

I.       HB 2722, -2 amendments, staff, 1 p

J.      HB 3310A, -A4 amendments, staff, 2 pp

K.    HB 3310A, -A5 amendments, staff, 1 p

L.     HB 3038A, -A7 amendments, staff, 10 pp

M.  HB 3038A, written testimony, Doug Myers, 4 pp

N.    HB 3038A, written testimony, Todd Heidgerken, 4 pp

O.    SB 344, -1 amendments, staff, 1 p

P.      SB 344, -2 amendments, staff, 1 p

Q.    HB 2729, -A2 amendments, staff, 11 pp

R.    HB 3349, -7 amendments, staff, 11 pp

S.      HB 3349, -8 amendments, staff, 10 pp

T.     HB 3349, -9 amendments, staff, 35 pp

U.     SB 785, written testimony, Jim Cathcart, 2 pp