SENATE COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY

 

 

January 28, 2005                                                                             Multnomah County Courthouse

8:30 a.m.                                                                                                              Hearing Room 602

                                                                                                                                      Tapes 11 - 16

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:         Sen. Ginny Burdick, Chair

Sen. Charles Starr, Vice-Chair

Sen. Roger Beyer

Sen. Floyd Prozanski

Sen. Charlie Ringo

Sen. Vicki Walker

Sen. Doug Whitsett

 

STAFF PRESENT:                 Joe O'Leary, Counsel

Dale Penn, Committee Assistant

 

MEASURES/ISSUES HEARD & WITNESSES:      

Judicial System - Informational Meeting

            Judge Dale Koch, Multnomah County presiding Judge

            Judge Robert Selander, Clackamas County presiding Judge

            Judge Marco Hernandez, Washington County presiding Judge

SB 335 – Public Hearing                   

            Jim Green, Charter School Resource Center

            Ron Naso, North Clackamas School District

            Lori Wimmer Whalen, Oregon Education Association

            Al Spencer, Government and Economics Teacher

            Mark Chism, Tiger/Tualatin School Board

            Susan Castillo, State Superintendent of Public Instruction

            Michael D. Schrunk, Multnomah County District Attorney

            Bernie Giusto, Multnomah County Sheriff

            Pat Garrett, Washington County Sheriff’s Office

            Dean Livelybrooks, Crow-Applegate-Lorane School District

            Ben Rawlins, Oregon University System

            Randy Leonard, Portland City Council

            Rod Harder, National Rifle Association

            Curtis Greer, Springfield

            Scott Gallant, Oregon Medical Association

            James Leuenberger

            Michael Pliska, Clackamas County

            Elmer Dickens, Washington County

            Bob Karl

            Daniel Ekenbarger

            Jack Fassel, Mount Hood Community College

            Bob Ekstrom, Constitution Party of Oregon

            Brian Murray, Newberg

            Wendy Coombs, Elementary School Teacher

            Glen Sabin

            Donald J. Jacobe

            Richard Holly

            George Pitts, Tri-County Gun Club

            Gene Warden, Safe to Learn

            Morgan Dickerson, Coalition of Black Men

            Julie Sterling, Ceasefire Oregon

            Will Fuller, Community and Parents for Public Schools

            Jonathan Maia, Portland State University

            Julie Richardson, Yamhill county

            Dale Butler, Beaverton

            Diane Madriana, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

            Asa Yan, Tualatin

            Susan Hagmire

 

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 11, A

004

Chair Burdick

Calls meeting to order at 8:46 a.m. and opens an informational meeting.

JUDICIAL SYSTEM, OVERVIEW OF – INFORMATIONAL MEETING

011

Chair Burdick

Describes the types of issues that come before the judiciary committee.

023

Judge Dale Koch

Multnomah County presiding Judge.  Talks about testimony on the judicial system in Multnomah county (EXHIBITS A – D).  Gives an overview of county judgeships, focusing on Circuit Court judges.  Goes on to talk about the court cases Circuit Court judges preside. 

063

Judge Koch

Describes appointment of Circuit Court judgeship.

075

Judge Koch

Explains his personal case load.  Comments on the juvenile court relationship with the Circuit Court.

080

Judge Koch

Describes possible court cases, services to the public, mediation programs in juvenile dependencies, landlord-tenant relationships, partnership with the district attorney’s office, and the Oregon State Bar.

119

Judge Koch

Talks about the drug court established in Multnomah County.  Highlights the success and process of the specialty court.  Identifies the cost saving features of the drug courts.

152

Judge Koch

Gives statistics on the success of the drunk driving program.

174

Judge Koch

Discusses the funding of these programs, and the relationship between these programs and drug or alcohol problems.  Reviews the statistics showing recidivism rates.

212

Judge Robert Selander

Clackamas County presiding Judge.  Details the Clackamas and Multnomah County drug courts and the barriers between counties being broken down.

230

Judge Selander

Discusses mental health problems in the justice system.

257

Judge Selander

Talks about substance abuse problems and its relationship to mental health problems.  Relates how the mental health court was created to address these issues.

295

Judge Selander

Summarizes the graduation requirements from Mental Health Court.  Talks about the differences between Clackamas and Multnomah counties and how his county takes in the individuals who have had very little or no access to mental health treatment.

360

Judge Marco Hernandez

Washington County presiding Judge.  Discusses the responsibility of the presiding judge.  Talks about the how funding ties into successful courts.

405

Judge Hernandez

Describes how budget constraints have hampered our jails, focusing on the restitution center.  Describes the mental health and drug and alcohol programs for inmates.

435

Judge Hernandez

Goes on to focus on the drug and alcohol treatment program for males and females in the restitution center.  Gives statistics in relation to these programs.

483

Sen. Ringo

Asks about the recent change in the diversion program.

496

Judge Koch

Replies there has been no significant change.

504

Sen. Ringo

Inquires how the legislature can assist?

TAPE 12, A

043

Judge Koch

Responds that increasing the penalty doesn’t exactly help the problem, but increasing funding of the prevention programs will help.

055

Judge Selander

Describes the diversion program used in Clackamas County.

076

Sen. Whitsett

Wonders about the budget and effectiveness of the drug and alcohol programs.

081

Judge Koch

Explains methods of enforcement for the alcohol program.  Cites examples of supervision techniques.

093

Sen. Walker

Questions the mental health court and wants to know if it was modeled after another court?

098

Judge Selander

Replies that it was created in 2001 and describes how the programming was created.

110

Sen. Walker

Asks about more information on the mental health program and recommends additional use of the template in other counties.  Expresses evidence based programming as a focus for this legislature.

117

Judge Selander

Announces the need for a mental health court.  Discusses mental health inmates and treatments available inside and outside of the justice system.

136

Sen. Prozanski

Wonders about the Oregon Health Plan and its use by inmates with a mental health problem.

150

Judge Selander

Clarifies the transition problem for individuals leaving the justice system.

180

Sen. Prozanski

Asks if, at the state system, we need to focus on treatments outside of the justice system.

180

Judge Selander

Replies that the program mentioned above is a good idea, but there is also a need for mental health professionals inside the justice system to alleviate some of the problems facing mental health sufferers.

190

Judge Hernandez

Talks about counties with no mental health system, and the process the courts take, as well as the funding problems they bring.

205

Sen. Walker

Wonders about the Governor’s budget and its effect on the judicial system.  Inquires about the specialty courts and the budget problems.

225

Judge Koch

Describes how the new budget affects the different players in the specialty courts.  Talks about how they must focus on violent crimes and abuse cases, no matter the budget. 

263

Judge Koch

States that because of these budget cuts, some court cases will take a cut, and describes those types of services.

287

Chair Burdick

Discusses how presiding judges have the power over concealed handguns licenses and relation to SB 335.

300

Judge Koch

Clarifies the rules in relation to the above mentioned statement.  Talks about a presiding judges power over the matter.

340

Judge Koch

Gives an example of a situation occurring in Multnomah County under these circumstances.

363

Judge Hernandez

Describes a situation similar to the above mentioned occurrence in Multnomah County.  Identifies a list of different items not allowed under these laws enacted due to the above mentioned occurrences.

417

Sen. Whitsett

Asks if most or all courthouses in Oregon have law enforcement present during court.

424

Judge Koch

Replies that most courts do have enforcement, but doesn’t know if they all do.  States certain budget constraints forcing personnel limitations.

440

Sen. Whitsett

Inquires about school law enforcement.

445

Judge Koch

Replies that he isn’t sure about school security.

451

Sen. Starr

Asks if individuals involved in above mentioned stories had a concealed weapon permit.

455

Judge Koch

Replies he doesn’t know for sure.

485

Chair Burdick

Closes Informational meeting and opens a public hearing on SB 335.

SB 335 – PUBLIC HEARING

490

Joe O’Leary

Counsel.  Describes SB 335, relating to concealed weapon licenses.

508

Sen. Prozanski

Inquires about the rules relating to amending bills already in the possession of the committee without legislative action.

TAPE 11, B

040

Chair Burdick

Discusses changes to SB 335, and the alterations to the relating clause.

047

Sen. Beyer

Reiterates his concern over the rules allowing Legislative Counsel or the Committee to amend the bill without legislative action.

054

Chair Burdick

Replies that they will address this on Monday.

057

Sen. Beyer

Questions Counsel on the description of the bill.

060

O’Leary

Describes SB 335 in greater detail.

094

Jim Green

Director, Charter School Resource Center.  Introduces (EXHIBIT E) which was introduced at the 2003 Oregon School Boards Association (OSBA) convention.  Explains the OSBA’s reasoning for adopting this bill and for supporting it. 

146

Ron Naso

Superintendent, North Clackamas School District.  Reads testimony in support of SB 335 (EXHIBIT F).

200

Naso

Continues to read testimony in support of SB 335 (EXHIBIT F).

250

Naso

Continues to read testimony in support of SB 335 (EXHIBIT F).

275

Lori Wimmer Whelen

Oregon Education Association.  Reads testimony in support of SB 335 (EXHIBIT G).  Expresses their support for an amendment to lessen the scope of this bill.

321

Al Spencer

Government and Economics Teacher in Tualatin.  Reads testimony (EXHIBIT H) in support of SB 335. 

360

Mark Chism

Director, Tiger/Tualatin School Board.  Reads testimony in support of SB 335 (EXHIBIT I).  Desires amendment concerning school board meetings required to adopt individual statutes.

TAPE 12, B

024

Sen. Whitsett

Wonders about the response time for law enforcement to arrive at schools.

028

Green

Admits that the response time depends on the particular schools.

034

Naso

Points out the problems with staffing due to budget cuts.

049

Sen. Whitsett

Asks if a person with a concealed gun permit shouldn’t be able to use their training to defend the school?

057

Chism

States that they don’t have the particular training to do something of that nature.  Comments that law personal have the necessary training, and should be the only ones to do such a thing.

083

Sen. Prozanski

Wonders about the impact of the bill.

107

Chair Burdick

Replies that the question will be deferred, and that LC has addressed the problem.

112

Sen. Prozanski

Comments on the R.O.T.C. programs in schools being exempt in certain situations.

140

Susan Castillo

State Superintendent of Public Instruction.  Reads testimony in support of SB 335 (EXHIBIT J).

218

Michael D. Schrunk

District Attorney, Multnomah County.  Reads testimony in support of SB 335 (EXHIBIT K).

278

Bernie Giusto

Multnomah County Sheriff.  Reads and discusses testimony in support of SB 335 (EXHIBIT L).

325

Giusto

Continues to read testimony in support of SB 335 (EXHIBIT L).

350

Giusto

Continues to read testimony in support of SB 335 (EXHIBIT L).

425

Pat Garrett

Chief Deputy, Washington County Sheriff’s Office.  Testifies in support of SB 335.  Discusses the statistics relating to the concealed handgun law.

TAPE 13, A

013

Sen. Prozanski

Wonders about classification of misdemeanors that causes a revocation for a concealed handgun license.

015

Garrett

Explains the revocation process, as well as their making sure the applicant abides by the law.

023

Sen. Prozanski

Asks the accused were acquitted from a misdemeanor during the process, would they still be denied.

024

Garrett

Replies didn’t know for sure.

027

Sen. Beyer

Asks if a hunter safety course is all that’s required for the license.

030

Giusto

Concedes yes, that is the requirement.

037

Sen. Whitsett

Inquires how such a law would have helped in Columbine.

041

Castillo

Responds that there was not a concealed weapon law, and that’s why we need preventative tactics.

047

Giusto

States there were early indications that handguns were coming into the school.

059

Sen. Walker

Comments that we are relatively safe here in a courthouse with safety methods, whereas the legislature does not take these precautions.

078

Sen. Beyer

Asks about how often the officers take a hunter safety course.

082

Giusto

Responds that the National Rifle Association (N.R.A.) safety course was taken by himself just months ago.

087

Sen. Beyer

Raises issue that the safety course doesn’t qualify as handgun safety.

095

Giusto

Concedes the point is true, and gives information on handgun safety courses sponsored by the N.R.A..

126

Dean Livelybrooks

Crow-Applegate-Lorane School District.  Testifies in support of SB 335.  Addresses the issue of response time; states that because of the rural status of his school district, the time is very long.  Conveys the status of the Lorane campus with only 6 teachers present.  Raises the possibility of dangerous encounters with concealed weapons on such a campus.

171

Ben Rawlins

General Counsel, Oregon University System, State Board of Higher Education.  Testifies in support of the state school board for SB 335.  Stresses the need for amendments in SB 335 including the campuses of higher education.  Addresses the history of concealed weapons in the legislature.

227

Randy Leonard

Portland City Council.  Testifies in support of SB 335.  Details his personal history as a fire fighter, and how the introduction of fire codes relates to SB 335.  Explains how preventative methods are always necessary.

300

Sen. Walker

Inquires about higher education law enforcement on banning concealed weapons on campus.

316

Rawlins

States methods used in higher education facilities to combat concealed weapons.

329

Sen. Walker

Wonders about victims of abuse (rape, etc.) who choose to have a concealed handgun for personal safety.

348

Rawlins

Responds that they have tried to create a safe campus with other securities and to rely on those to protect themselves.

365

Sen. Walker

Asks about the preventative methods on higher education campuses.

373

Rawlins

Gives examples of safety programs on campuses for students.

407

Sen. Beyer

Inquires about conflicting legislature bills.  In particular, an earlier statute acknowledging dealing with concealed weapons on a higher university campus.

415

Rawlins

Suggests that there are other facets of that statue that give the school board authority to ban concealed weapons on higher university campuses.

427

Sen. Beyer

Asks about court cases concerning this matter.

429

Rawlins

Gives examples of court cases dealing with banning weapons on a university campus and cites Stubbs vs. University of Oregon.

TAPE 14, A

028

Rod Harder

Oregon Consultant, National Rifle Association (NRA).  Reads testimony in opposition to SB 335 (EXHIBIT M).

075

Harder

Continues reading testimony in support of SB 335 (EXHIBIT M).

097

Curtis Greer

Springfield.  Testifies in opposition to SB 335.  Discusses terrorist actions that would be possible due to the passing of this bill.

106

Sen. Whitsett

Wonders how disarming honest law abiding citizens improves their safety when in contact with armed antagonist.

111

Harder

Asserts he believes that an armed society is a polite society and a safe society.

117

Sen. Beyer

Inquires about the NRA sanctioned/approved handgun course.

124

Harder

Explains that hunter safety does not truly certify a concealed handgun license.

151

Scott Gallant

Oregon Medical Association.  Testifies in support of SB 335.  Reiterates testimony by Mr. Leonard, and that if such an occurrence did happen, this bill would most certainly be passed.  Notes prevention is key here.

208

James Leuenberger

Testifies in opposition to SB 335.  Asserts he does not agree with the inability to protect themselves and their children.

240

Michael Pliska

Clackamas County.  Reads testimony in opposition to SB 335 (EXHIBIT N).

334

Pliska

Addresses the issue of N.R.A. handgun safety courses.

345

Elmer Dickens

Washington County.  Testifies and gives personal information relating to SB 335.  Admits his neutrality on this issue. 

410

Dickens

Discusses federal laws for concealed handguns and compares that information with Oregon laws.

440

Dickens

Mentions earlier cases involving concealed handgun laws.  Addresses revocation issues.

TAPE 13, B

039

Chair Burdick

Wonders if Mr. Dickens represents individuals who have had licenses revoked.

041

Dickens

Responds no he does not.

069

Bob Karl

Details his background with the N.R.A. and his victimization by an individual with a weapon.  Testifies against SB 335.

117

Karl

Discusses that neither Columbine or the Oregon school involved individuals with concealed handgun licenses.

127

Daniel Ekenbarger

Business owner, parent.  Testifies in opposition to SB 335.  Expresses his belief that carrying concealed weapons decreases crime, provides for a safer environment.

189

Jack Fassel

West Linn.  Mount Hood Community College.  Testifies in opposition to SB 335.  Describes his history of victimization by individuals, and his way of providing security by carrying a concealed weapon.  Declares that SB 335 will not make schools safe.  States that criminals do not follow the law, while concealed weapon license holders do.

236

Sen. Ringo

Wonders about safety, and what makes someone safer.  Asks about objective evidence that exists which proves we are safer with more concealed weapon permits.

252

Fassel

Cites a recent study that exists which proves this.

254

Ekenbarger

Poses a philosophical question about responsible handgun carrying.

274

Karl

Discusses story of Kitty Genovese, a Brooklyn women who was killed very slowly by an assailant, with many people who watched and did nothing.

296

Sen. Ringo

Addresses the story of Kitty Genovese, and how it speaks to apathy rather than SB 335.  Asks about individuals who are uncomfortable with concealed weapons.

305

Karl

Responds that there are people who are uncomfortable with many things; religion, etc..  Asserts that comfort is the least important thing in our society.

323

Sen. Ringo

Asks about limitations of a concealed weapons permit, and the decisions of a local district to determine its own safety.

340

Fassel

Replies that there are many who are concerned about concealed weapons, and cites the example of uncertainty among the different districts that would result if such a statute would be passed. 

387

Sen. Beyer

Comments that it is not against the law to have a weapon in an airport, just on an airplane.

426

Bob Ekstrom

Constitution Party of Oregon.  Testifies in opposition to SB 335.  Submits the United States Constitution and the New Testament (EXHIBITS O & P).  Discusses the relationship between the bible, the constitution, and the rights of man.

TAPE 14, B

015

Sen. Prozanski

Asks for personal definition of “armed citizenry.”

019

Ekstrom

Gives personal definition of “armed citizenry.”

027

Sen. Prozanski

Inquires if Mr. Ekstrom believes mental health sufferers or convicted individuals have that right.

031

Ekstrom

States no, that is incorrect.  Advocates that you can forgo your rights due to bad behavior.

057

Brian Murray

Newberg.  Testifies in opposition to SB 335.  Discusses N.R.A. handgun safety course.  Expresses his desire and ability to defend himself and his family.

092

Wendy Coombs

Elementary School Teacher.  Reads testimony in opposition to SB 335 (EXHIBIT Q).

173

Sen. Beyer

Asks if Mrs. Coombs is representative of the school.

178

Coombs

Responds no, she is not on the clock.

197

Chair Burdick

Calls recess at 12:12 p.m.

199

Chair Burdick

Calls meeting to order at 1:05 p.m.

219

Glen Sabin

Testifies in opposition to SB 355.  Discusses historical facts relating to his cause.

272

Sabin

Addresses his belief that SB 335 solves an imaginary threat.

330

Sabin

Comments on the response time of officers when called to a school, and their training when faced with such an occurrence.

393

Donald J. Jacobe

Reads testimony in opposition to SB 335 (EXHIBIT R).

TAPE 15, A

026

Richard Holly

Testifies in opposition to SB 335.  Cites studies that prove the licensing of concealed weapons does not cause crime.  Discusses how public safety would be decreased by the passing of SB 355.  Gives the example of Israel arming their teachers against terrorists taking hostages in their schools and how violent crime was dramatically reduced because of it.

068

George Pitts

Tri-County Gun Club.  Testifies against SB 355.  Discusses how SB 335 was raised as a public safety issue, but there is no evidence to support that.  Asserts that if public safety is truly such an issue, we wouldn’t let our kids do many of the things we currently allow (drive a car, sports, etc.).  Discusses preemption law, and its historical importance.

138

Chair Burdick

Asks if Mr. Pitts would approve an increase in training required for a permit.

140

Pitts

Replies that yes, he would, and then goes on to describe the training he provides as well as its limitations.

155

Sen. Whitsett

Inquires about the studies cited by Mr. Holly.

160

Holly

Replies that it is on the CDC website.

181

Gene Warden

Safe to Learn.  Acknowledges a list who support SB 355 (EXHIBT S).

194

Morgan Dickerson

Chair, Coalition of Black Men.  Testifies in support of SB 335.  Discusses the problems with people misrepresenting events, and the bad choices that could happen if someone with a concealed weapon license exacerbates a problem.

230

Julie Sterling

Board Member, Ceasefire Oregon.  Testifies in support of SB 335.  Raises the concern of the average person not being “well trained” enough to handle these types of situations.  Asserts that the assumption that every person who has a permit is well trained is wrong.

255

Will Fuller

Board Member, Community and Parents for Public Schools.  Testifies in support of SB 335.  Talks about what makes a school safe, and the different thoughts on this.  Expresses his desire for preventative techniques; teaching, respect, etc. 

342

Curtis Schultz

Multnomah County.  Testifies against SB 335.  Talks about concealed carry laws in states over the past several years; cites statistics and the relation of concealed weapons permits to crime reduction.

396

Jonathan Maia

Student, Portland State University (PSU).  Desires amendments to SB 335 to include higher education.  Expresses concern with recent occurrences on the urban campus of PSU involving weapons.  Discusses how the police are not responsible for the safety of individuals, only the safety of the public.

TAPE 16, A

030

Julie Richardson

Yamhill County.  Announces her concealed weapon license and her risks involved with the passing of this bill.  Mentions situations where a concealed weapon would come in handy in her life.

087

Dale Butler

Beaverton.  Testifies in opposition to SB 355.  Talks about the safety an attacker has knowing s/he is the only individual in an area with a weapon.  States this bill will restrict our safety, and will not affect the madmen who don’t care about our laws anyway.

123

Diane Madriana

Regional Director, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.  Details the N.R.A.’s involvement in changing Oregon’s concealed carrying license.  Talks about wanting a strengthened training regiment for N.R.A. licensing.  Reports the difference between trained law enforcement officers and regular concealed gun license owners.

185

Asa Yan

Tualatin.  Comments on his background in armed forces.  Discusses the difference between a ‘good law’ and a ‘bad law,’ and the relationship to SB 355.

275

Sen. Whitsett

Asks if discussion and debate occur before or after a measure is adopted.

284

Madriana

States she would like to have debate before a measure is adopted.

301

Sen. Whitsett

States that debates should be done in the community and then advise your representatives as to your decisions.

306

Madriana

Discusses how she feels the decisions on concealment was made in the 1980s and was influenced by the N.R.A. and other organizations.

352

Susan Hagmire

Parent.  Believes that nobody but a sworn police officer should be able to hold weapons on school grounds.  Expresses her horror at the idea of a gun being on school grounds, no matter what license gives the user the right to be there.  Declares that the presence of guns cause danger, no matter what.

403

Joe O’Leary

Discusses written testimony given to the committee by Jerod Broadfoot (EXHIBIT T),  Marge Easley (EXHIBIT U), Lori Makey (EXHIBIT V), Shawn Alford (EXHIBIT W), and John Freeman (EXHIBIT X).

420

Chair Burdick

Closes public hearing on SB 335 and opens work session on SB 203.

SB 203 – WORK SESSION

428

Chair Burdick

Postpones until later.  Closes work session on SB 203.

453

Chair Burdick

Adjourns hearing at 2:13 p.m.

 

 

 

 

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

  1. Uniform Trial Court Rule, Dale Koch, 2 pp
  2. DUI Intensive Supervision Program, Dale Koch, 1 p
  3. Overview of Circuit Court, Dale Koch, 1 p
  4. Washington County Corrections Center, Dale Koch, 1 p
  5. SB 335, Concealed Weapons on Public School Property, Jim Green, 1 p
  6. SB 335, written testimony, Ron Naso, 2 pp
  7. SB 335, written testimony, Laurie Wimmer Whelan, 1 p
  8. SB 335, written testimony, Al Spencer, 1 p
  9. SB 335, written testimony, Mark Chism, 2 pp
  10. SB 335, written testimony, Susan Castillo, 2 pp
  11. SB 335, written testimony, Michael Schrunk, 2 pp
  12. SB 335, written testimony, Bernie Giusto, 2 pp
  13. SB 335, written testimony, Rod Harder, 2 pp
  14. SB 335, written testimony, Michael Pliska, 1 p
  15. SB 335, Constitution, Bob Ekstrom, booklet 60 pp
  16. SB 335, New Testament, Bob Ekstrom, booklet 633 pp
  17. SB 335, written testimony, Wendy Coombs, 1 p
  18. SB 335, written testimony, Donald Jacobe, 2 pp
  19. SB 335, written testimony, GeneWarden, 1 p
  20. SB 335, written testimony, Jerod Broadfoot, 1 p
  21. SB 335, written testimony, Marge Easley, 1 p
  22. SB 335, written testimony, Lori Makey, 1 p
  23. SB 335, written testimony, Shawn Alford, 2 pp
  24. SB 335, written testimony, John Freeman, 1 p