SENATE COMMITTEE ON RULES

 

 

March 08, 2005                                                                                                   Hearing Room 343

8:30 a.m.                                                                                                                      Tapes  21 - 25

Corrected 10/04/05

MEMBERS PRESENT:         Sen. Kate Brown, Chair

Sen. Ted Ferrioli, Vice-Chair

Sen. Jason Atkinson

Sen. Charlie Ringo

Sen. Frank Shields

 

VISITING MEMBER:                       Sen. Joanne Verger

 

STAFF PRESENT:                 Tiffany Harris, Committee Administrator

Patricia Nielsen, Committee Assistant

 

MEASURE/ISSUES HEARD:          

Executive Appointment – Public Hearing and Work Session

      State Board of Forestry

            Les AuCoin

Approval of drafting requests – Work Session

Introduction of Committee Measures – Work Session

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.  Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speaker’s exact words.  For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 21, A

005

Chair Brown

Calls the meeting to order at 8:32 a.m.  Opens work session for consideration of drafting requests and introduction of committee measures.

APPROVAL OF DRAFTING REQUESTS AND INTRODUCTION OF COMMITTEE MEASURES – WORK SESSION

010

Chair Brown

MOTION:  Moves drafting requests 1 through 18 be approved for drafting by Legislative Counsel (EXHIBIT A).

030

Sen. Ferrioli

Points out #12 is at the request of Sen. Kruse, Sen. Morse, Sen. Winters and Sen. Bruce Starr.

035

Chair Brown

Continues describing requests for drafting and introduction.

040

Sen. Brown

MOTION:  Moves LC's:  LC 1369 (EXHIBIT B), LC 1482 (EXHIBIT C), LC 2992 (EXHIBIT D), LC 3092 (EXHIBIT E), and LC 3237 (EXHIBIT F) BE INTRODUCED as committee bills.

045

 

VOTE:  5-0-0

AYE:            In a roll call vote, all members present vote Aye.

 

Chair Brown

The motion CARRIES.

 

 

*NOTE:  LC 1369 printed as SB 1009

LC 1482 printed as SB 1010

LC 2992 printed as SB 1013

LC 3092 printed as SB 1011

LC 3237 printed as SB 1012

060

Chair Brown

Closes work session for drafting and introductions.  Opens public hearing on executive appointment of Les AuCoin to the State Board of Forestry.

EXECUTIVE APPOINTMENT – PUBLIC HEARING

STATE BOARD OF FORESTRY – APPOINTMENT OF LES AUCOIN (EXHIBIT G)

065

Sen. Dave Nelson

District 29.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Submits written testimony of Kent Madison (EXHIBIT H).  Discusses qualifications of current incumbent, Chris Heffernan. 

130

Rep. Chuck Burley

District 54.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Refers to written testimony of Kent Madison (EXHIBIT H).  Discusses qualifications of Chris Heffernan.  Points out unique perspective of Heffernan with family-owned forestland in eastern Oregon.

165

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks why it is important to have a family forestland owner on the Board of Forestry.

175

Rep. Burley

Explains there is a unique perspective, particularly in eastern Oregon.

185

Sen. Ferrioli

Comments it is not in statute or rule and asks whether it is a tradition to have that member on the Board.

190

Rep. Burley

Affirms.

195

Rep. Jeff Kropf

District 17.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Discusses experiences visiting Chris Heffernan on his land in eastern Oregon.  Suggests AuCoin could not replace Heffernan’s perspective.

230

Rep. George Gilman

District 55.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Agrees with the previous speakers.

250

Sen. Ringo

Points out the appointment is not a criticism of Heffernan but is an effort to bring balance to the Board by adding a conservation perspective.  Observes five of the seven current members are connected to the timber industry.

260

Rep. Kropf

Urges members to visit Heffernan’s ranch to see his commitment to conservation.  Argues he is not connected to timber but is a farmer and rancher.

285

Rep. Greg Smith

District 57.  Discusses qualifications of AuCoin but suggests he is not the right man for the job.  Describes how Heffernan has operated in moderation on the Board.

325

Rep. Gordon Anderson

District 3, location of the 2002 Biscuit Fire.  Asks to stay with the current direction of evidence-based science.  Comments Heffernan has a scientific background but AuCoin does not.

355

Les AuCoin

Ashland, Oregon.  Author; retired U.S. Congressman; former Oregon Representative; retired Glen L. Jackson professor of Political Science, Southern Oregon University (SOU); AuCoin Institute for Economic, Environmental and Civic Studies.  Discusses his interest and qualifications for the appointment.  Describes activities of his mediation institute.  Describes the Governor’s goals for his term on the Board to raise the visibility of the Board and bring public experience in forestry to the Board to better reflect the diverse views of Oregonians.  Discusses his experience with forest issues including wilderness, wild and scenic rivers, mining, dams, endangered species and timber industry economics.

TAPE 22, A

020

Chair Brown

Refers to Ballot Measure 34 and asks if he would throw out the Tillamook and Clatsop Forest plan and start over.

030

AuCoin

Responds he would follow the structure-based management plan of the Department of Forestry.  Discusses mixed uses to create a healthy standing forest.  Pledges to participate in the Board’s consensus process.

045

Chair Brown

Asks about his intent to work to guaranty an adequate revenue stream from state timber for the counties.

050

AuCoin

Confirms he will work to find ways to continue to develop rural economies.

055

Chair Brown

Inquires about his position on clear cutting.

060

AuCoin

Discusses different ways and areas of clear cutting.  Objects to massive clear cuts which focus on getting out the timber at all costs.

070

Chair Brown

Inquires about his position on salvage logging.

075

AuCoin

Explains he is not against it, but suggests avoiding old growth preserves, roadless areas and other ecologically sensitive areas.

090

Chair Brown

Asks how he would approach the Biscuit Fire salvage operation to get the timber out in a timely, environmental and economic manner. 

095

AuCoin

Observes the fundamental problem was the John Sessions report, which was not subjected to traditional peer review, did not have any input from wildfire biologists and failed to consider ecological and economic costs of his plans.  Discusses political pressure to increase the amount of timber cut.

150

Chair Brown

Asks whether the Board’s decision-making process should be political.

155

AuCoin

Suggests there should be more public interest input in the process.

160

Sen. Ringo

Asks about conflict resolution process he manages in Ashland.

170

AuCoin

Discusses dispute resolution techniques:

·         Bring in participants with every point of view

·         Conduct discussions between those at opposite ends of each issue, using a professional facilitator

Explains how participants can disagree without anger, recognize different points of view and understand each other’s perspectives.

230

Sen. Ringo

Asks whether state forests can be managed to balance recreation, water quality and habitat maintenance with jobs and revenue to counties.

240

AuCoin

Suggests it is possible and offers to work toward that goal.  Points out the author of the structure-based management plan said mixed areas are important.  Argues the Board must consider that in its consensus process.

260

Sen. Ferrioli

Plays a recorded statement.  Asks about the non-elite public mentioned in the statement.

290

AuCoin

Responds it is the general public who are not privy to or able to spend time learning which science is sound and which is not.

325

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks whether he one of the elites.

330

AuCoin

Responds he is an experienced policy maker who has served in many capacities.

335

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks about size of a “massive” clearcut.

340

AuCoin

Explains it extends over a large number of acres.  Argues they could be handled with more sophistication and sensitivity to other interests.

345

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks what is massive in relation to statutory limitations.

350

AuCoin

Explains the average in Tillamook and Clatsop forests is 40-50 acres, which is not massive.

355

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks about the size limitation of a clearcut.

360

AuCoin

Responds it is 120 acres.

365

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks about application of the Forest Practices Act.

370

AuCoin

Answers it applies to private industrial forest operators, including small woodlands, but not to public or federal forest lands.

385

Sen. Ferrioli

Suggests a thorough working knowledge of forestry is required but the candidate does not have sufficient forestry experience.

390

AuCoin

Responds he is a policymaker with experience, and that is needed on the Board.

400

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks about his opinion of cattle grazing on state lands and state-managed forest lands.

415

AuCoin

Refers to a commentary he wrote describing a cattle feeding operation.

TAPE 21, B

005

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks whether he would support or oppose grazing on public lands managed by the Department of Forestry.

010

AuCoin

Responds he does not oppose in all cases.  Discusses Bureau of Land Management (BLM) proposal about grazing in the Cascade Siskiyou National Monument area.

020

Sen. Ferrioli

Comments on the relation between the Board of Forestry and the current Director of the Department of Forestry.  Asks about criticism of State Forester Marvin Brown as not neutral.

030

AuCoin

Responds he would prefer someone with greater environmental credentials and fewer forestry credentials.  Adds since that commentary was written he has conversed with Brown and found him thoughtful and forthcoming, so the comment is outdated.

045

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks about Oregon’s is attempt to deal with the introduction of gray wolves.  Refers to criticism of ranchers.

055

AuCoin

Clarifies he is critical of ranchers who from lack of knowledge might exaggerate perceived danger of introduction of wolves.  Discusses experience in Yellowstone where introduction of wolves has had a positive effect on the local ecosystem with minimal effect on cattle.  Disagrees that the mere introduction of the wolf will have a detrimental effect on ranching.

100

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks whether he would support habitat designation for wolves in Oregon on state-owned lands or lands governed by the Forest Practices Act.

105

AuCoin

Responds he has not studied the issue; it would be a question for the entire Board based on its consensus approach.

110

Sen. Ferrioli

Comments on criticism of Governor Kulongoski.  Reads a column from April 2003.

130

AuCoin

Adds that the column also contained a statement that the Governor offered two budgets, one for each scenario.  Opines it is acceptable to disagree with another politician.  Points out the Governor has read the same columns, and did so before the nomination.  Observes the Governor has tolerance for diversity.

155

Sen. Ferrioli

Suggests applicant will have a direct opportunity to participate in education funding.

165

AuCoin

Agrees there is a need for sustainable forestry to meet school funding needs.

175

Sen. Atkinson

Comments on the tragedy of the failure to salvage wood from the Biscuit Fire and the Northwest Forestry Plan.  Asks if the Pulp Association endorses him.

195

AuCoin

Clarifies he won awards from a variety of groups, including environmental organizations and “O & C” counties (Oregon and California Railroad Grant Lands) whose timber harvests he saved.  Defends his balanced approach in following facts where they lead. 

215

Sen. Atkinson

Refers to commentaries critical of President Bush and the Department of Forestry and asks how to move from criticism to collaboration.

225

AuCoin

Acknowledges both sides have strong views.  Points out President Bush is pressing for harvest and away from conservation.  Recommends reaching common ground by both sides acknowledging their strong views and working through fears.

245

Sen. Atkinson

Refers to the appointment of Russell Sadler to the Marine Board, and the fear he would use his platform to push his views.  Asks whether this appointment will limit the candidate’s writing and whether he can avoid using the appointment for a platform.

260

AuCoin

Agrees it is inappropriate for a journalist to report what happens in the Board meetings.

280

Sen. Atkinson

Asks whether his recruitment included any discussion of this concern.

285

AuCoin

Responds it did not.  Describes discussions with the Governor.  Describes his current writing projects.

305

Sen. Atkinson

Predicts a big fire season coming.  Asks about tanker bases, preventing fire, and his philosophy about initial attack.

320

AuCoin

Responds his priority is on the urban-rural interface, where families live and own homes.  Expresses willingness to discuss with National Forest Service whether in the name of thinning we should focus on the deep forest.  Suggests deep forests cannot be made fireproof. 

355

Sen. Atkinson

Comments during the Biscuit Fire the national priority was forest, structure and then life, and state priority was life, structure, then forest.  Asks his view.

360

AuCoin

Responds life, structure then forest.

375

Sen. Verger

Appears as visiting member because of different pressures in her district.  Asks how he would plan to bring more moderate views in policy-making to the Forestry Board.  Believes Oregonians have moderate views.

TAPE 22, B

005

AuCoin

Agrees most Oregonians are moderate in fundamental values.  Refers to record in Congress to explain he is a problem solver rather than an extremist.  Discusses specific experiences in understanding opposing points of view and fashioning policies to get the job done. 

060

Sen. Roger Beyer

District 9.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Declares a conflict as a private woodland owner.  Suggests candidate does not have perspective of a private forest land owner.  Discusses statutory requirement for Board membership.  Suggests there are not a majority of timber industry representatives on the Board.  Argues Chris Heffernan is a representative of small woodland owners and brings that perspective.  Suggests appointment of AuCoin would change the perspective of the whole Board.

155

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks how many small woodland owners are in Oregon

160

Sen. Beyer

Suggests tens of thousands. 

165

Sen. Ferrioli

Gives specific numbers of those who need representation on the Board.

170

Sen. Beyer

Refers to issue of productive and unproductive timberland in the early 1990s.  Argues that perspective is needed and would be lost.

190

Sen. Ryan Deckert

District 14.  Testifies in support of the appointment.  Points out support from natural resource community and the timber industry in particular.  Praises candidate’s public service to the state.

215

Sen. Shields

Comments the Board needs open-minded members.  Asks how he can assure the committee he can work within the environment of the Board.

235

AuCoin

Responds he will work to make the Board productive.  Discusses complexities of the Board’s work and the divisions in the state.  Opines the Board must have a voice Oregonians can respect even if members do not always agree.  Discusses experience acquiring Weyerhaeuser old-growth timber asset for inclusion in a wildlife refuge.

315

Sen. Shields

Asks for examples how he brought opponents together.

320

AuCoin

Discusses experience acquiring O & C Lands for a Grande Ronde reservation base of forest lands.  Discusses bringing those with differences together for meaningful discussion, together with technical experts to address questions.

405

Sen. Shields

Refers to comment about replacing woodland owner on the Board.  Asks about urban-rural divide of “two Oregons” and asks how to address the divide.

TAPE 23, A

015

AuCoin

Explains part of governance must take into account the two Oregons.  Refers to his upbringing in central Oregon.  Plans to draw on his background to reach common ground between views.  Answers misinformation in the press criticizing his position on logging.  Clarifies he served on the committee which wrote the federal timber sales level for 12 years.  Asserts he is not the enemy of logging nor has he tried to undermine timber businesses.  Cites Timber Contract Relief Act to help mills sell logs at a reasonable price during a recession.

085

Rep. Peter Buckley

District 5.  Testifies in support of the appointment.

095

K.C. VanNatta

Small landowner.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT I).

130

Link Phillippi

Rough and Ready Lumber Co.  Declares conflict because his wife serves on the Forestry Board.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT J).  Discusses lack of tolerance and ties to the environmental community.

180

Rick Sohn

President, Lone Rock Timber Co.; Chair, Oregon Forest Industries Council (OFIC).  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Expresses concern that AuCoin’s approach is political not informational.  Discusses his company’s commitment for sustainability of forests.  Explains role of forest protective associations to keep fires small and contained.

280

Jeff Merrick

Adjunct Professor of Law, Lewis & Clark Law School.  Testifies in support of the appointment.  Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT K).  Discusses statutory requirement for Forestry Board membership and current lack of compliance.

310

Jessica Hamilton

Oregon League of Conservation Voters.  Testifies in support of the appointment to return balance to the Board of Forestry. 

320

Dave Moskowitz

Wild Salmon Center.  Testifies in support of the appointment.  Discusses need for diversity and science on the Board.

400

Sen. Ferrioli

Discusses logic of restriction of diversity and qualifications of Board candidates.

415

Merrick

Responds and discusses the specific qualifications.

TAPE 24, A

005

Sen. Ferrioli

Suggests possible conflict by Oregon State University (OSU) professor and Board member because OSU owns regulated forest land.

010

Chair Brown

Describes declarations by Board members making clear their contacts.

020

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks about any lawyer or worker for timber contacts.

025

Merrick

Declines the broad statement.  Discusses makeup of Board.

030

Rep. Deborah Boone

District 32.  Testifies in support of appointment.  Discusses the candidate’s experience in forestry issues.

055

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks if she would be eligible for the Board of Forestry.

057

Rep. Boone

Declines.

060

Bob Duncan

Former Congressman, former Oregon legislator.  Testifies in support of the appointment.  Discusses experience working with AuCoin in his political career.

155

Joel Scoggin

Columbia Helicopters.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Suggests AuCoin worked with timber interests during his years in Congress but has changed his view.

235

Alan Thayer

Small woodland owner; Oregon Small Woodlands Association (OSWA).  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Discusses the Oregon economic situation.  Points out there are several types of woodland owners with differing interests.  Explains the timber economy is hurting and needs to raise more wood.

275

Ron Larson

Small woodland owner; OSWA member.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Recommends a small woodland owner be appointed.

300

Sen. Ringo

Compares management of small woodlands to management of state forests.  Stresses importance of a balanced approach.

335

Jay Ward

Oregon Natural Resources Council.  Testifies in support of the appointment.  Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT L).  Discusses need for change in Board membership to meet the statutory mandate.

TAPE 23, B

005

Sen. Ferrioli

Clarifies whether AuCoin will do for private forest lands in Oregon what has been done on federal lands.

008

Ward

Responds no, but AuCoin will bring perspective to forest management.

010

Ivan Maluski

Sierra Club.  Testifies in support of the appointment.  Submits written testimony of Jill Workman (EXHIBIT M).

025

Les Halgeson

Native Fish Society.  Testifies in support of the appointment.

050

Wayne Giesy

Former legislator.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT N).

075

John Hampton

Hampton Affiliates; former member of the Board of Forestry.  Testifies in opposition.  Does not believe the candidate can provide balance to the Board.  Discusses Board’s approach to consensus decision-making.

155

Chair Brown

Restates his position that while not happy with harvest levels under the Tillamook-Clatsop plan he is willing to live with them.

160

Hampton

Confirms if targets are achieved.

165

Dave Ivanoff

Hampton Affiliates; Chair, No on 34 Committee; past chair, OFIC.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Discusses distress of the timber industry and the inability of the candidate to represent those interests.  Approves of Chris Heffernan reappointment.

218

 

Recesses the committee at 11:36 a.m. for a call of the Senate.

220

 

Reconvenes the committee at 11:44 a.m.

222

Alan Foutch

Forester, Miami Corporation.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT O).  Asserts the appointment will not bring balance but will politicize the position.

275

Gary Springer

Starker Forests.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT P)

300

Greg Miller

Weyerhaeuser.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT Q).  Respects candidate’s different opinion but doubts ability to reach consensus.

355

Susan Ash

Audubon Society.  Testifies in support.  Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT R).  Discusses support of other organizations expressed in submitted letter (EXHIBIT S).

TAPE 24, B

010

Sen. Ferrioli

Refers to Jefferson public radio commentaries and asks if she agrees with them.

015

Ash

Responds she does not agree but has heard many good points.

020

Sen. Ferrioli

Refers to commentary about “Cowschwitz.”

025

Ash

Declines to discuss in this forum.

030

Mark Mercier

Grand Ronde, Oregon; former Tribal Council member, Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde.  Testifies in support of the appointment.  Discusses experience with the Grand Ronde tribe to reacquire timber land to produce timber and support the tribe.

075

Chair Brown

Asks about the largest employer in Polk County.

080

Mercier

Answers it is the Tribe’s Spirit Mountain Casino.

085

Mark McCollister

Oregon Trout.  Testifies in support of the appointment.

095

Ray Wilkeson

Oregon Forest Industries Council (OFIC).  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT T).

115

Robert McNitt

Stayton Oregon; retired forester.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT U).

170

Greg Addington

Oregon Farm Bureau.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT V)

200

Terry Witt

Oregonians for Food and Shelter.  Testifies in opposition to the appointment.  Regrets the double negative of removing a tried-and-true contributor and adding a person with outward bias who would not bring balance.

245

Chair Brown

Closes public hearing on executive appointment.  Recesses the committee at 12:15 p.m.

250

Chair Brown

Reconvenes the committee at 12:17 p.m.  Opens work session on executive appointment.

EXECUTIVE APPOINTMENT – WORK SESSION

STATE BOARD OF FORESTRY – APPOINTMENT OF LES AUCOIN (EXHIBIT G)

255

Sen. Ringo

MOTION:  Moves the APPOINTMENT of Les AuCoin to the State Board of Forestry to the floor with the recommendation that the appointment BE CONFIRMED.

265

Sen. Ferrioli

Explains his position and advises he will not support the appointment.  Suggests review of the membership of the Board of Forestry to retain Chris Heffernan.

335

Sen. Ringo

Expresses disappointment at hearing so much about the divide in our state.  Suggests the appointment is not the issue, but is made an issue by some who are not informed of the candidate’s actual environmental policy.

375

Sen. Shields

Comments on the diversity of the points of view presented today.  Challenges us to treat each other with more respect.  Discusses changes in political opinions.

TAPE 25, A

015

Sen. Atkinson

Expresses concern over how the Governor has been operating executive appointments.  Suggests all issues have not been considered before the vote and opposes on those grounds.

040

Sen. Ringo

VOTE:  3-2-0

AYE:               3 - Ringo, Shields, Brown

NAY:               2 - Atkinson, Ferrioli

 

Chair Brown

The motion CARRIES.

SEN. BROWN will lead discussion on the floor.

051

Chair Brown

Closes work session on executive appointment.  Adjourns the committee at 12:29 p.m.

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A.     Approval of drafting and introduction requests, memorandum, staff, 2 pp

B.     Introductions, LC 1369 (1-21-05), staff, 4 pp

C.     Introductions, LC 1482 (1-12-05), staff, 2 pp

D.    Introductions, LC 2992 (2-24-05), staff, 32 pp

E.     Introductions, LC 3092 (2-16-05), staff, 2 pp

F.      Introductions, LC 3237 (2-25-05), staff, 3 pp

G.    State Board of Forestry, staff and Governor’s office, 7 pp

H.    State Board of Forestry, written testimony of Kent Madison, Sen. David Nelson, 1 p

I.       State Board of Forestry, written testimony, K.C. VanNatta, 1 p

J.      State Board of Forestry, written testimony, Link Phillippi, 2 p

K.    State Board of Forestry, written testimony, Jeff Merrick, 1 p

L.     State Board of Forestry, written testimony, Jay Ward, 2 pp

M.  State Board of Forestry, written testimony of Jill Workman, Ivan Maluski, 1 p

N.    State Board of Forestry, written testimony, Wayne Giesy, 1 p

O.    State Board of Forestry, written testimony, Allan Foutch, 2 pp

P.      State Board of Forestry, written testimony, Gary Springer, 1 p

Q.    State Board of Forestry, written testimony, Gregory Miller, 4 pp

R.    State Board of Forestry, written testimony, Susan Ash, 1 p

S.      State Board of Forestry, written testimony, Susan Ash, 1 p

T.     State Board of Forestry, written testimony, Ray Wilkeson, 3 pp

U.     State Board of Forestry, written testimony, Robert McNitt, 1 p

V.     State Board of Forestry, written testimony, Greg Addington, 2 pp