SENATE COMMITTEE ON RULES

 

 

July 05, 2005†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Hearing Room B

9:00 A.M.†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Tapes 147 - 149

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:†††††††† Sen. Kate Brown, Chair

Sen. Ted Ferrioli, Vice-Chair

Sen. Jason Atkinson

Sen. Charlie Ringo

Sen. Frank Shields

 

MEMBER VISITING:†††††††††††††††††††††† Sen. Richard Devlin

 

STAFF PRESENT:†††††††††††††††† Tiffany Harris, Committee Administrator

Katie Lowry, Committee Assistant

 

MEASURE/ISSUES HEARD:††††††††††

HB 2450B - Public Hearing

 

 

These minutes are in compliance with Senate and House Rules.† Only text enclosed in quotation marks reports a speakerís exact words.† For complete contents, please refer to the tapes.

 

TAPE/#

Speaker

Comments

TAPE 147, A

005

Chair Brown

Calls the meeting to order at 9:06 a.m. and opens a public hearing on HB 2450B.

HB 2450B - PUBLIC HEARING

008

Tiffany Harris

Committee Administrator. Provides an overview of HB 2450B.

013

Sen. Avel Gordly

Senate District 23. Testifies in support of HB 2450B.

100

Sen. Gordly

Continues testimony in support of HB 2450B. Comments about legislation regarding school lunch program.

139

Chair Brown

Confirms that bill passed out of the Senate.

140

Sen. Gordly

Continues testimony in support of HB 2450B.

225

Speaker Karen Minnis

House District 49. Comments on Sen. Gordlyís testimony. Makes observations regarding education funding. Submits and discusses written testimony in support of HB 2450B (EXHIBIT A).

300

Speaker Minnis

Continues testimony in support of HB 2450B.

400

Speaker Minnis

Continues testimony in support of HB 2450B.

423

Chair Brown

Wants to wait on Paul Warnerís testimony until later this afternoon due to time.

427

Sen. Gordly

Discusses email received regarding teachers.

TAPE 148, A

001

Sen. Gordly

Continues discussing email received.

020

Speaker Minnis

Explains why the Portland provision in the original bill was deleted.

028

Chair Brown

Explains that business leaders have told her that education is extremely important. States she has talked to several businesses who have expressed willingness to support an increase in the corporate income tax. Points out that, under this proposal, none of the corporate income tax goes to schools. Wonders if witnesses believe that businesses should be contributing to education in Oregon.

034

Speaker Minnis

Explains Paul Warner believes the most stable source will be personal income tax. Points out that a business tax is the most unstable tax source. Explains in detail.

045

Sen. Gordly

Believes businesses should contribute to school taxes. Points out that is not the proposal before the committee. Wants to make sure there is a stable funding source available for K-12 before the session is over.

056

Chair Brown

Comments on the budget appropriation discrepancies between the House and the Senate. Wonders about making everything a fixed percentage.

063

Speaker Minnis

Replies K-12 is the largest component of the budget. Believes if there is a stable funding source for K-12, there will be stability established for other programs.

076

Sen. Devlin

Comments regarding the School Revenue Forecast Committee. Wonders about the analysis done to arrive at the percentages in the B-engrossed bill to ensure adequacy.

093

Speaker Minnis

Comments on the subjectivity of adequacy. Comments on the need for stability.

116

Sen. Devlin

Wonders how witness arrived at the 4.5% per en number in the bill. Comments on PERS.

123

Speaker Minnis

Responds.

131

Sen. Ringo

Comments regarding adequacy and stability in schools. Mentions corporate tax revenues.

146

Speaker Minnis

States she would not object to adding corporate tax revenue dollars into the plan.

148

Sen. Ringo

Believes stability is easily achieved if we are willing to accept inadequacy.

151

Speaker Minnis

Wonders if Sen. Ringo believes that legislators could begin the 75th legislative session and appropriate 5.8 million dollars to K-12.

153

Sen. Ringo

Replies he does not know what the forecast will be for next session.

154

Speaker Minnis

Believes the K-12 budget will be close to 5.8 million dollars next session if this plan is implemented.

155

Sen. Ringo

Reiterates that stability is important. Points out that stability is not the goal. Comments on the politics of K-12 funding.

171

Speaker Minnis

Makes comments.

174

Sen. Atkinson

Thanks witnesses for their testimony. Comments on the debate for K-12 funding.

193

Sen. Gordly

Comments she is not here as an advocate for inadequate funding. Believes there can be work done to improve HB 2450B.

208

Sen. Ferrioli

Thanks Chair Brown for holding a hearing on HB 2450B. Comments on the political debate on K-12 funding. Comments on the dedication of teachers. Comments the numbers may need to be adjusted, but points out there is no better alternative on the table.

247

Chair Brown

Comments on measures regarding K-12 funding passed by the Senate. Points out to say there are no competing proposals is inaccurate.

253

Sen. Ferrioli

Comments on a minority report that would have brought this proposal to the Senate. Points out that senators have not had an opportunity to vote on this proposal.

259

Chair Brown

States that is correct.

260

Sen. Ferrioli

Hopes this bill will move to the Senate floor in order to be voted on.

261

Chair Brown

Clarifies the reason Sen. Ferrioli chose to withdraw the minority report was because she offered him a hearing on this bill. Points out he was given a choice. Believes he chose wisely.

266

Sen. Ferrioli

Hopes there is an opportunity to allow senators to vote on this proposal.

269

Sen. Shields

Comments on the meaning of invocation. Believes the legislature will need wisdom in order to come to a solution. Thanks witnesses for their time.

306

Tom Olson

Resident, Canby. Stand for Children. Submits and reads written testimony in opposition to HB 2450B (EXHIBIT B).

400

Kathy Sansone

Resident, Salem. Stand for Children. Submits and reads written testimony in opposition to HB 2450B (EXHIBIT C).

TAPE 147, B

007

ZoŽ Walmer

Student, Lakeridge High School. Director of Outreach, the Youth Caucus. Submits and reads written testimony in opposition to HB 2450B (EXHIBIT D).

049

Chair Brown

Thanks witness for her testimony. Recesses the meeting at 10:09 a.m. and states the meeting will reconvene at 1:00 p.m.

053

Chair Brown

Calls the meeting back to order at 1:06 p.m.

059

Rep. Jeff Merkley

House District 47. Discusses concerns with HB 2450B. Submits a letter from Legislative Counsel (LC) (EXHIBIT E). Remarks on legislation introduced in the Senate. Mentions SB 1091 (2005).

100

Chair Brown

Remarks that Speaker Minnis expressed concerns after speaking with members of the Portland delegation that people would not support the gap proposal that was in the original bill. Wonders if witness has had any conversations with the Portland School Board regarding the gap bond issue.

106

Rep. Merkley

Replies yes. Explains in detail.†

118

Sen. Shields

Wonders if the 14 members of the Portland delegation ever had a chance to discuss issues with the Portland School Board or superintendent as a group.

122

Rep. Merkley

Explains the caucus members did invite the superintendent, but she was unable to come. Explains they met with one member of the School Board and an individual representing the School Board. Explains each member of the caucus wrote a letter expressing their concerns regarding HB 2450B.

131

Chair Brown

Asks when those conversations with the Portland School Board member occurred.

132

Rep. Merkley

Replies approximately two weeks ago.

141

John Marshall

Oregon School Board Association. Testifies in support of HB 2450B.

233

Kent Hunsaker

Executive Director, Confederation of Oregon School Administrators (OSBA). Comments on funding for K-12 in previous biennia.

278

Chair Brown

States that the Senate Republicanís plan was 53 percent.

280

Hunsaker

Replies. †

288

Hunsaker

Submits and discusses analysis of HB 2450B (EXHIBIT F).

291

Chair Brown

Believes the percentage for the K-12 numbers hasnít varied much over the last several sessions. Believes there may have been about a one to three percent difference in the amount allocated.

295

Hunsaker

Explains that is on page three of his testimony. Continues discussing analysis of HB 2450B. Explains that HB 3460 is now HB 2450B.

392

Anthony Lanni

Superintendent, North Central ESD and Grant County ESD. Submits and reads written testimony in support of HB 2450B (EXHIBIT G).

TAPE 148, B

001

Lanni

Continues reading written testimony in support of HB 2450B.

020

Chair Brown

Refers to witnessí statement that we are losing the bidding war. Comments on the figures on page two of the submitted analysis.

030

Hunsaker

Comments on numbers.

036

Chair Brown

Comments that if this bill had been in place in the í03-í05 biennium, the percentage would have been approximately $329 million less that what the legislature actually gave K-12 schools. Asks if that gives the witness concerns about this proposal.

045

Hunsaker

Reiterates he believes 51percent is not adequate. Recommends 55 percent. Explains in detail. Encourages committee to change the numbers.

054

Chair Brown

Wonders if the debate would change from a numbers debate to a percentage debate if this legislation is passed.

061

Marshall

Responds. Believes the stability HB 2450B will provide is valuable.

077

Chair Brown

Comments on testimony regarding rising cost of health insurance and the concern about dollars not getting into the classrooms. Asks for comments regarding SB 639 (2005) and SB 766 (2005).

085

Marshall

States the OSBA is on record as opposing both bills.

088

Hunsaker

States COSA is on record as opposing both bills. Explains reasons for opposition.

097

Sen. Ferrioli

Discusses concerns with the Quality Education Model (QEM). Wonders if any of the witnesses have studied the QEM.

105

Chair Brown

Wonders if Sen. Ferrioli means less expensive.

106

Sen. Ferrioli

Responds. Discusses the adequacy and affordability of education. Asks if witnesses have formed an opinion of what should happen with the QEM. Wonders if we have made expectations that are unreachable.

119

Marshall

Remarks on the need for a definition on adequacy that can be agreed upon. Believes the QEM attempts to answer the wrong question. Explains in detail.

147

Hunsaker

Comments on the QEM.

162

Sen. Ferrioli

States the Speakerís plan resets the number in the out years to 5.318. Wonders what affect that number has on this proposal.

165

Hunsaker

Explains the affect.

176

Chair Brown

Points out the bill presumes that we will fund schools at 5.318 this biennium. Asks why that number was chosen.

180

Hunsaker

Explains it was chosen because it was the number given by the Revenue Forecasting Committee for the roll-up costs for education.

183

Chair Brown

Verifies it was essentially a no-cuts number.

184

Hunsaker

Replies yes.

185

Sen. Ferrioli

Discusses reasons for choosing 5.318.

198

Sen. Ferrioli

Discusses the percentage points in HB 2450B and the minority report offered. Asks Mr. Marshall how long he has been involved with the OSBA.

210

Marshall

Replies his first session for the OSBA was 1983.

211

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks what he was doing before that.

212

Marshall

Replies he was with Oregon Tax Research for five years previous to that.

213

Sen. Ferrioli

Wonders what the total time is.

214

Marshall

Replies 28 years.

215

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks Mr. Lanni how long he has been involved with education.

216

Lanni

Replies he has lived in Oregon for 10 years.

217

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks what his profession was prior to coming to Oregon.

218

Lanni

Replies 36 years in education.

219

Sen. Ferrioli

Asks how long he has been involved in crafting budgets.

220

Lanni

Replies 25 years.

221

Sen. Ferrioli

Discusses Mr. Hunsakerís career. Asks Mr. Hunsaker what his aggregate experience is.

229

Hunsaker

Replies 36 years in education.

232

Sen. Ferrioli

Points out there is an aggregate of over 100 years of experience here.

234

Chair Brown

Wonders if the OSBA is supporting 5.318 billion dollars for schools out of the general fund this session.

236

Marshall

Replies yes. Explains they have consistently supported the highest number possible. Explains.

240

Chair Brown

Notes that Andi Jordan had to leave and has submitted written testimony for the record (EXHIBIT H).

252

Kathryn Firestone

Executive Director, Coalition for Schools. Submits and reads written testimony in opposition to HB 2450B (EXHIBIT I).

296

Tricia Smith

Oregon School Employees Association. Submits and reads written testimony in opposition to HB 2450B (EXHIBIT J).

350

Smith

Continues reading submitted testimony.

TAPE 149, A

001

Laurie Wimmer Whelan

Oregon Education Association. Discusses concerns with HB 2450B. Submits written testimony in opposition to HB 2450B (EXHIBIT K).

107

Wimmer Whelan

Comments on legislation passed by the Senate. Reiterates opposition to HB 2450B.

116

Sen. Ringo

Asks Ms. Firestone how long she has been in education.

118

Firestone

Replies she has been an advocate for public schools in Oregon since 1991 primarily as a volunteer.

120

Sen. Ringo

Verifies that witness was the head of the Parent Teacher Association (PTA).

121

Firestone

Replies she is the past president of the Oregon PTA, past vice-president for legislation for the Oregon PTA, and a former commissioner for the QEM as well as a best practices panel member.

122

Sen. Ringo

Makes comments.

131

Marcia Kelley

American Association of University Women of Oregon. Submits written testimony on behalf of Chris Coughlin, Executive Director of Our Oregon, in opposition to HB 2450B (EXHIBIT L). Testifies in opposition to HB 2450B.

200

Kelley

Continues testimony in opposition to HB 2450B.

243

Sen. Shields

Asks if witness has written testimony.

244

Kelley

Replies she will submit it. Submits written testimony for the record (EXHIBIT M).

255

Tim Nesbitt

Oregon AFL-CIO. Testifies in opposition to HB 2450B.

309

Jim Craven

American Electronics Association. States they do not have a firm position on HB 2450B. Testifies regarding HB 2450B.

365

Vice-Chair Ferrioli

Closes the public hearing on HB 2450B and adjourns the meeting at 2:26 p.m.

 

EXHIBIT SUMMARY

 

A.     HB 2450B, written testimony, Speaker Karen Minnis, 2 pp

B.     HB 2450B, written testimony, Tom Olson, 1 p

C.     HB 2450B, written testimony, Kathy Sansone, 1 p

D.    HB 2450B, written testimony, ZoŽ Walmer, 2 pp

E.     HB 2450B, letter, Rep. Jeff Merkley, 2 pp

F.      HB 2450B, analysis of HB 2450B, Kent Hunsaker, 5 pp

G.    HB 2450B, written testimony, Anthony Lanni, 2 pp

H.    HB 2450B, written testimony, Andi Jordan, 1 p

I.       HB 2450B, written testimony, Kathryn Firestone, 1 p

J.      HB 2450B, written testimony, Tricia Smith, 3 pp

K.    HB 2450B, written testimony, Laurie Wimmer Whelan, 2 pp

L.     HB 2450B, written testimony of Chris Coughlin, Marcia Kelley, 1 p

M.  HB 2450B, written testimony, Marcia Kelley, 3 pp